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12 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

I don’t think XL is much of a project. He isn’t killing it immediately like a top rookie WR would but his stats aren’t far off from Ladd and yeah Ladd’s only played 4, but we barely used XL in game 1 and he had Bryce throwing him the ball in game 2. We need ousted WRs. Slots just seem easier to come by. What outside WR did you want us to draft at 32 over XL? 
Who cares what our old fired staff failed to develop? This is our coach’s first year and he was zeroed in on XL. What Rhule, Reich, and Rivera did in the past has nothing to do with Canales. XL fits what Canales wants to do. Let’s just let him build his team because it’s going to happen whether we like it or not. 

His tendency to body catch makes him a project alone. I'm not grading everyone else on the first 2 games, that was about Bryce and this teams past mistakes. He was always a project compared to the other guys they could have drafted who were much more NFL ready. What was the stat, good WRs produce immediately now and don't really have a slump? He looks closer to Mingo and TMJ then the guys doing well now in his draft class. He is a project and always was. Hopefully he can become an Evens but he looks more like our regular 2nd round WRs and that's not good.

And the GM was part of the failed staff last year so no passes on that either. If Dan would have come out and drafted like Fritters wasn't still here anymore then I would give him one but it's way too similar for me. DC wants to pass when he needs to run so it's not like he isn't comparable to the past failures either. His expensive oline is falling apart also. He has all year to prove himself but nothing but benching Bryce looks good yet. It's early but there are plenty of earned criticisms.

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23 hours ago, 33inNC said:

This. There is no way in hell TMJ is not better than Mingo. But, it is Tepper once again letting his ego dictate what we do. Admit it, your boy Fitt drafted like crap. 

Can we not act like TMJ wasn’t awful? Mingo may be worse but neither one should be on the team. We’ve got too many guys who wouldn’t be on any other roster. TMJ hasn’t played at all this year, not even sure if he’s on a team anymore.

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15 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

You don't draft developmental guys in the first or second round unless you are a bad franchise. We consistently do this. Shocker of all shockers, it almost never works out.

This is what happened to Mingo and is likely to happen to XL.

Ever wonder why we can't develop these guys? Probably because we have the same level of terrible decision making as overdrafting guys like those in the first place that hiring coaches.

Also, name some guys in the last decade that didn't develop here and then went elsewhere to develop? It isn't just us that can't do it. We choose the wrong prospects many more times than we don't.

Yes. 

Year after year they draft high with ‘potential’ guys thinking every time that they can coach em up… well we can’t. And don’t. And the cycle continues. 

The only way this team has found success in the past is with a squad of otherworldly studs that can take a game over on their own. Cam, Luke, Greg, Davis all on the field at the same time?

SS89, peppers, Jenkins, Stephen Davis, Delhomme….

All players that if they catch a gear, it’s a wrap. That’s how this team wins. They never coach up anyone. They rely on striking gold on the HOF ready player to come in and be the savior of the season. Those rosters challenge any of the SB teams, talent wise, except for a precious few… LOB Seahawks, etc. 

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3 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

Yes. 

Year after year they draft high with ‘potential’ guys thinking every time that they can coach em up… well we can’t. And don’t. And the cycle continues. 

The only way this team has found success in the past is with a squad of otherworldly studs that can take a game over on their own. Cam, Luke, Greg, Davis all on the field at the same time?

SS89, peppers, Jenkins, Stephen Davis, Delhomme….

All players that if they catch a gear, it’s a wrap. That’s how this team wins. They never coach up anyone. They rely on striking gold on the HOF ready player to come in and be the savior of the season. Those rosters challenge any of the SB teams, talent wise, except for a precious few… LOB Seahawks, etc. 

Yeah, I just cannot wrap my head around the obsession with "fix er uppers."

We are the neighbor with 60 rusty hulks in their yard and not a single one of them being worked on.

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17 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

This has zero to do with Bryce Young. It's about drafting a guy that needed to be on the bench for a couple of seasons to figure this poo out when you could have gotten an NFL ready player from day one.

We do this poo all the fuging time and it's infuriating. If the answer to "is he ready to play now" is "no", that is not a top 3 round pick player. That's a fuging day three player.

Not sure who you are referring too but TBH this team is a longggggg way from competing IMO makes drafting high potential more preferable to day 1 starters with lower ceilings. 

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7 minutes ago, PantherChris said:

Not sure who you are referring too but TBH this team is a longggggg way from competing IMO makes drafting high potential more preferable to day 1 starters with lower ceilings. 

No it doesn't. We literally need players that can play professional football now because they are going to be playing professional football now. What help is it for them to go out there and get abused early and often without a shred of development?

How about this, name one of those guys in the past decade that has panned out for us at all?

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17 hours ago, Move the Panthers to Raleigh said:

Sigh…another wasted 2nd rounder

Yep and it hurts again since we gave up a 2nd, 4th and 6th for Darnold, a 3rd for Henderson, 2 4ths for DJ and Corral, 2 1sts and 2 2nds for Young and so on, all in 3 years. Wasting 1sts to 3rds can’t keep happening because we don’t have the surplus of picks that most rebuilding teams have.

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6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I just cannot wrap my head around the obsession with "fix er uppers."

We are the neighbor with 60 rusty hulks in their yard and not a single one of them being worked on.

It’s the Panthers way. Sucky team, GM is feeling the heat so takes a flier on an injured has been vet and/or a lotto ticket draft. It always fails miserably. He gets fired anyway. And we regress back to the mean. 

And it’s going on again. Everyone clamoring for another savior of the franchise draft pick. What we need is 2 entirely unpopular and boring drafts with guys who just do their damn job. Fundamentally sound. They are run stoppers. Sure tacklers. Nose for the ball. Intelligent. They catch with their hands, and catch every damn ball thrown their way. They don’t miss blocking assignments. They rarely hold or get called for false starts. They actually enjoy playing the game. 

your 4.4 guy ain’t shi* if the ball just bounces off his chest. Your 16 sack guy who is worthless against the run will lose you many more games than he’ll win you. 
 

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13 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

I don’t think XL is much of a project. He isn’t killing it immediately like a top rookie WR would but his stats aren’t far off from Ladd and yeah Ladd’s only played 4, but we barely used XL in game 1 and he had Bryce throwing him the ball in game 2. We need ousted WRs. Slots just seem easier to come by. What outside WR did you want us to draft at 32 over XL? 
Who cares what our old fired staff failed to develop? This is our coach’s first year and he was zeroed in on XL. What Rhule, Reich, and Rivera did in the past has nothing to do with Canales. XL fits what Canales wants to do. Let’s just let him build his team because it’s going to happen whether we like it or not. 

XL is going to be 24 in January when DJ Moore will still be 27. DJ is now in season 7 in the NFL. We keep drafted older projects, not just projects, but older projects.

I hope XL works out but a first round pick on a guy who didn’t have over 167 yards in college until he was in year 5 is honestly way too risky for this club. Go up and get Thomas or Worthy or stay put and grab Coleman. All of those guys are 2 years younger than Leggette.

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3 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

It’s the Panthers way. Sucky team, GM is feeling the heat so takes a flier on an injured has been vet and/or a lotto ticket draft. It always fails miserably. He gets fired anyway. And we regress back to the mean. 

And it’s going on again. Everyone clamoring for another savior of the franchise draft pick. What we need is 2 entirely unpopular and boring drafts with guys who just do their damn job. Fundamentally sound. They are run stoppers. Sure tacklers. Nose for the ball. Intelligent. They catch with their hands, and catch every damn ball thrown their way. They don’t miss blocking assignments. They rarely hold or get called for false starts. They actually enjoy playing the game. 

your 4.4 guy ain’t shi* if the ball just bounces off his chest. Your 16 sack guy who is worthless against the run will lose you many more games than he’ll win you. 
 

We will have a top 5 pick. We need to just not overthink it and get someone who is the best at their position and ready to play NFL football from day one. And not some devalued position like RB or some insanely weak positional class. 

Do the Hurney thing. Just get a can't miss guy in the top 5. Don't make this hard.

After the first round, IDK what to say.....just come to a consensus of what the scouting department and FO want to do with each pick. Once that consensus is reached, just do exactly the opposite of whatever those guys came up with.

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2 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

XL is going to be 24 in January when DJ Moore will still be 27. DJ is now in season 7 in the NFL. We keep drafted older projects, not just projects, but older projects.

I hope XL works out but a first round pick on a guy who didn’t have over 167 yards in college until he was in year 5 is honestly way too risky for this club. Go up and get Thomas or Worthy or stay put and grab Coleman. All of those guys are 2 years younger than Leggette.

DJ Johnson comes to mind. Still hasn't made a discernable impact nor developed into a solid rotational guy but will be 26 in a few days. 

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5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

DJ Johnson comes to mind. Still hasn't made a discernable impact nor developed into a solid rotational guy but will be 26 in a few days. 

I posted about him in another thread because folks were getting excited that he’s developing. We’re past participation trophies, especially for a guy who’s 29 in the first year of his second contract (big assumption).

Not sure if you read it, but Burns is in his 6th year and he’s only 6 months older than DJ Johnson. Just the age would have had me going how can we think that a current project player will replace a player who’s basically the same age but already had 5 years in the NFL. That’s a giant red flag. Go find two 21 year old projects instead of trading up for one old project.

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45 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

Yes. 

Year after year they draft high with ‘potential’ guys thinking every time that they can coach em up… well we can’t. And don’t. And the cycle continues. 

The only way this team has found success in the past is with a squad of otherworldly studs that can take a game over on their own. Cam, Luke, Greg, Davis all on the field at the same time?

SS89, peppers, Jenkins, Stephen Davis, Delhomme….

All players that if they catch a gear, it’s a wrap. That’s how this team wins. They never coach up anyone. They rely on striking gold on the HOF ready player to come in and be the savior of the season. Those rosters challenge any of the SB teams, talent wise, except for a precious few… LOB Seahawks, etc. 

The thing with drafting guys for potential is they need to be young.  Not a bunch of 5th year seniors.  Those guys are pretty much what they're going to be.  I also don't even see the really high ceiling on most of these guys.   Good size and fast 40 aren't all it takes to have a high potential ceiling.

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10 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

The thing with drafting guys for potential is they need to be young.  Not a bunch of 5th year seniors.  Those guys are pretty much what they're going to be.  I also don't even see the really high ceiling on most of these guys.   Good size and fast 40 aren't all it takes to have a high potential ceiling.

Yup. It’s just that we have always had trash has been position coaches as well. Without good position coaches, which we almost never have, the young talent never progresses. Additionally, the raw high ceiling guys might be where they are…. Because they just don’t like playing the game all that much so they succeed off of raw God given talent. If a guy with a high ceiling would have put the work in to iron out the wrinkles, he’d be a top 10 pick instead of midway 2nd round. 

So we end up with guys who don’t really live and breathe football, being coached by retread position coaches. Good times. 

This is why we need truly fundamentally sound, NFL ready players. 

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On an opposite trajectory.  We need a Z WR more than we need a TE, so if we focus on needs on defense (S, LB, DE) and the offense (WR, OL) I am not seeing the luxury of adding a TE to play before our developmental players can reach their potential.  We really have no established depth at WR behind TMac and Coker, so expect a Z in the draft–early. I think they are going with Chuba, Brooks, Eteinne, and Dillon for now at RB.  QB?  It sure looks as though the are going to grab a UDFA to be the emergency QB.  One will fall out of the draft that has the potential to stick in the NFL–which is why we brought them in for visits–we want that team to be us.  I think this is the best evidence that we are “all in” on Bryce.   Predictions:   Round 1:  WR: I still think this is the biggest possibility for round 1 if you go by position.  A rare talent from Oregon (TE or S) could be the pick if the WRs don’t fall, and the same can be said for OL or DL.  This draft is very challenging, but the tea leaves say WR is an area they researched heavily.  By the way, they LOVE Texas Tech LB Rodriquez.  Met with him 3 times.  Do not be surprised…he is my darkhorse.   The betting lines, however, provide some interesting perspectives,and the player’s expected availability is factored in, so take with a grain of salt:   (Panther Wire) For those of you who want an OT (I am not going to cry if we land a Proctor, for example–I totally get it), Morgan said this (in relation to Canales’ comments at the league meeting about the first rounder being an immediate starter):  “"I understand what Coach is saying in terms of—obviously, you want your first-round pick to be able to come in and contribute immediately. So, yeah, I'm kinda with him on that," Morgan stated when asked of Canales' comments. "You want your first-round pick to play, but there's different scenarios to where maybe it takes a guy a little longer to develop, and he may not contribute right away. With some of the picks at different positions, it may take a little longer for those guys to develop, for sure." That could apply to CB or OT, in my opinion.   Round 2: This will probably be defense if they draft WR in round 1, but if they do not, expect the WR in round 2.  I do not see a WR after round 2 helping much–it would be better to go with the TE if that is the case.  I am of the mindset that XL will not emerge to reach his potential, a major indicator of my thinking on this. This will be a LB--they want Rodriguez but the will draft Hill or Golday if WR is taken in round 1. Round 3:  I see DL, S, and TE in my crystal football.  However, my night visions show us taking a TE--Max Klare from Ohio State. I see DE as perhaps our biggest need--but not many share my view--we never replaced Robinson. (This is tough to do) Day 3:  Expect OL OL and maybe DL. Our OL is in its last season together.  A total overhaul is ahead. Keep an eye on Jude Bowry and Austin Barber.  Mark my words!!   So that is it for the offense.  I hope you enjoyed this–by doing this, it helps me understand the currents and the nuances of the draft–I enjoy it more–so this is for me, shared with you.  I will take a look at D and try to share by Tuesday. If you appreciate this, see the link pinned in Huddle and help out if you can- Newborn Twin Granddaughters 
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