Would you take Josh Freeman #1 overall?

[davos]

I'm not convincing myself to not want any particular player. A lot of Gabbert hate in here which doesn't make sense to me. Why do you want to convince yourselves to hate the guy? Figuring out how certain players will transition into the NFL is one of the hardest things to do in this league and I'm going to stay on the side that says he is the at the top of the QB class for a reason and has the potential to succeed. You never know until the shot is given.

[rayzor]

I'm not convincing myself to not want any particular player. A lot of Gabbert hate in here which doesn't make sense to me. Why do you want to convince yourselves to hate the guy? Figuring out how certain players will transition into the NFL is one of the hardest things to do in this league and I'm going to stay on the side that says he is the at the top of the QB class for a reason and has the potential to succeed. You never know until the shot is given.

meh...i can't understand why the guy is as hyped as he is. i amnot a sheep buying whatever drivel comes from draftniks just because they say it. all of them get things wrong. all of them are fallible. they have all proved it over and over. i wn't buy hype from anyone about anyone if i don't feel it is justified, which in this case it isn't.

i've seen the guy play and i've watched the highlights...i just don't get it anymore than i did with the hype around so many others that have been hyped by the experts only to become miserable failures.

gabbert just isn't all that impressive.

[davos]

meh...i can't understand why the guy is as hyped as he is. i amnot a sheep buying whatever drivel comes from draftniks just because they say it. all of them get things wrong. all of them are fallible. they have all proved it over and over. i wn't buy hype from anyone about anyone if i don't feel it is justified, which in this case it isn't.

i've seen the guy play and i've watched the highlights...i just don't get it anymore than i did with the hype around so many others that have been hyped by the experts only to become miserable failures.

gabbert just isn't all that impressive.

I respect that. I mean it is pretty hard to dig up video on Gabbert and once I did it wasn't what I expected from a possible top pick, but I'm trying to keep an open mind at the same time. We still have the combines, interviews, etc. over the next few months that can easily cause changes at the top of draft boards.

[rayzor]

the problem is the combine isn't a really good way to see what these guys can do. imo, they are given too much weight in rankings. you put these guys through the most ideal of situations, without a serious pass rush, and you are only going to get good results. sure, it's a useful tool, but it doesn't do a good job of seeing what they do with multiple receivers or with defenders running at you. gabbert does fine when he isn't pressured, but when he is and the right side of the field is shut down, he's a fail waiting to happen. i'm not kidding when i say he's as scary to watch under pressure as clausen was this past year. people are paying too much attention to his size and big arm and he's only getting the ranking and reviews he is because it is such a weak QB class.

at best he is a 3 year project with limited upside. there is nothing spectacular about him. i just don't see him being a top 10 pick unless the team is really desperate and unable to make good decisions at QB. i have faith in this coaching staff and their input on the selection process that they won't be that team.

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

the problem is the combine isn't a really good way to see what these guys can do. imo, they are given too much weight in rankings. you put these guys through the most ideal of situations, without a serious pass rush, and you are only going to get good results. sure, it's a useful tool, but it doesn't do a good job of seeing what they do with multiple receivers or with defenders running at you. gabbert does fine when he isn't pressured, but when he is and the right side of the field is shut down, he's a fail waiting to happen. i'm not kidding when i say he's as scary to watch under pressure as clausen was this past year. people are paying too much attention to his size and big arm and he's only getting the ranking and reviews he is because it is such a weak QB class.

at best he is a 3 year project with limited upside. there is nothing spectacular about him. i just don't see him being a top 10 pick unless the team is really desperate and unable to make good decisions at QB. i have faith in this coaching staff and their input on the selection process that they won't be that team.

Jarmarcus Russell, Jeff George, Kyle Boller all got extreme hype fome the combine and Workout. Jarmarcus Russell was a consensus 97 rated QB after his workout. His arm strength was off the charts and his running abilities.

Kyle Boller threw a ball from his knees at the 50 yard line through the uprights....ya know like he would every week.. the combine is where guys(Media-Draft pundits) get crushes on other guys in their undies. Brady Quinn was a combine darling with a few detractors..Leinart no-brainer..Vince Young possible no.1 pick.....

[OchoNueve]

We would have considered it a win if we would have drafted Andrew Luck and he would have played as good as Freeman has his first 2 years... so the answer is yes

[Urrymonster]

Tape = how good a player is

Combine = how high their potential is

Essentially, always trust the tape. If someone who looks bad on tape, but excels at the combine, you know you have a project on your hands. Someone who excels on tape, but is poor at the combine, is generally an 'over-achiever' or 'system' player. Someone who looks decent and is fairly average at the combine, probably means the guy has maxed his potential.

I think the combine has value. It gives an indication of the ceiling of a player, whereas tape gives you an indication on how good they are currently. I would always beware of picking combine monsters who weren't rated highly before, as there is obviously something holding these guys back from being anywhere near their potential.

The interviews allow an indication into 'what' is holding the player back from their combine numbers.

Oh and anyone thinking the combine isn't a pressure situation is crazy. Isolated from the adrenaline pumping action of playing, and having the majority of a game to get it right, players are given less than a handful of moments to make an impression. If anyone has been in a group interview for a big job, it's a bit like that.

[OchoNueve]

how much does the wonderlic test factor in?

[JawnyBlaze]

Not much. Vince Young still went top 5 after scoring a -13 on his wonderlic test.

how much does the wonderlic test factor in?

[rayzor]

Oh and anyone thinking the combine isn't a pressure situation is crazy. Isolated from the adrenaline pumping action of playing, and having the majority of a game to get it right, players are given less than a handful of moments to make an impression. If anyone has been in a group interview for a big job, it's a bit like that.

totally different kind of pressure, and, like i said, drills at the combines and pro days are done in ideal situations. it's a lot easier to look good in those than it is in real games.

[Urrymonster]

how much does the wonderlic test factor in?

I doubt that it makes much difference to the decision makers. I would guess it's the sort of thing they would use to split two players who have projected very similar.

totally different kind of pressure, and, like i said, drills at the combines and pro days are done in ideal situations. it's a lot easier to look good in those than it is in real games.

No I agree and appreciate that. It is ideal situations and thus it does show what a player 'can' do. Tape shows what they actually do and what they actually do under game pressure. I think the combine is more useful to test the character or personality of a player, like how much camaraderie they have with the other players or if they isolate themselves.

Still, the combine gives an indication on just how high they could go. It's the rest of the process that explains why they don;t play like that on the field.

[rayzor]

yeah, it is valuable and i know the actual pro scouts (if they're worth a crap) use a more balanced approach, but i think the draftniks and talking headswill often allow the combine to carry more weight.

still, in regards to someone like gabbert, i don't see his concerns being the things that are going to come out in the combine. i think he might actually be able to do well. it's what's in the tapes that really bothers me. nothing he does in the combine will be able to change my opinion of him.

counter that with someone like newton, who might actually legitimately help his stock in the combine, esp. with the interviews.

[mav1234]

so much Gabbert hate, haha.

he's pretty typical of a big, strong-armed college quarterbck coming out, including many of the same drawbacks... save that he has above average agility, pretty decent decision making (1 int in every 53 pass attempts is pretty good), and great leadership ability... he's also a smart kid.

*shrugs* I could go on but I know it's not worth it... He's got a lot on his side right now which is why he's getting the looks.

still, in regards to someone like gabbert, i don't see his concerns being the things that are going to come out in the combine. i think he might actually be able to do well. it's what's in the tapes that really bothers me. nothing he does in the combine will be able to change my opinion of him.

counter that with someone like newton, who might actually legitimately help his stock in the combine, esp. with the interviews.

that's because you've already made up your mind, dude. you've made it clear what you think of the QBs in this draft and you're just going to use what you like in the combine, and ignore the rest.

[TheRealDeal]

so much Gabbert hate, haha.

he's pretty typical of a big, strong-armed college quarterbck coming out, including many of the same drawbacks... save that he has above average agility, pretty decent decision making (1 int in every 53 pass attempts is pretty good), and great leadership ability... he's also a smart kid.

*shrugs* I could go on but I know it's not worth it... He's got a lot on his side right now which is why he's getting the looks.

I don't understand the hate for him either. I think it's Gabbert and Locker at 1/2 and Newton and Mallet at 3/4 or 4/3. I don't think any are #1 though.