Thielen update

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Pretty much every fan of Stroud and the Panthers acknowledges his trajectory has been down for a bit. Despite this, we have to massively subset his career and ignore HIS accomplishments for the comparison to be even roughly equal between he and Bryce. That's how much better his career has been to date.  We don't yet know for sure how his career will end but for any of you digging him I'd ask this: Would you rather have his accomplishments to date or Bryce's? 

I think with CJ you likely are looking at variant of the sophomore slump.  It didn't come week 1 of year 2.  Showed itself late last year and continues on this year.    

CJ has the talent to play in this league.  He already proved that.  The first real test after you can prove you got what it takes.....is can you overcome NFL teams really getting to know you (which to me is what a sophomore slump is). 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

I think with CJ you likely are looking at variant of the sophomore slump.  It didn't come week 1 of year 2.  Showed itself late last year and continues on this year.    

CJ has the talent to play in this league.  He already proved that.  The first real test after you can prove you got what it takes.....is can you overcome NFL teams really getting to know you (which to me is what a sophomore slump is). 

The worry with CJ is that he is Trevor Lawrence. That's basically the worst case NFL QB scenario. Supreme talent and flashes enough to get a top 8 QB contract but never really truly improves to much more than a slightly above average NFL starter with an elite price tag. 

So, while we definitely got the lesser of the two QB's, it is possible we don't end up as badly, depending on Stroud's ultimate career arc. Bryce will never see that kind of contract, so we ducked that, at least.

[Shotgun]

1 hour ago, AceBoogie said:

You can criticize the entire operation. Bryce included. Here’s the truth. Bryce was a better college football player than anyone on the roster. The roster around him ain’t good enough. Period. We aren’t at a place where we can have a serious QB convo. Look at Sam last night and Baker the last two years. It’s the team, it’s the organization. Yall think it’s a coincidence that the same teams never have QB issues? 

It can be both things at once though. Young would still be very limited on a loaded team.

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

The worry with CJ is that he is Trevor Lawrence. That's basically the worst case NFL QB scenario. Supreme talent and flashes enough to get a top 8 QB contract but never really truly improves to much more than a slightly above average NFL starter with an elite price tag. 

So, while we definitely got the lesser of the two QB's, it is possible we don't end up as badly, depending on Stroud's ultimate career arc. Bryce will never see that kind of contract, so we ducked that, at least.

[kungfoodude]

Just now, mav1234 said:

[mav1234]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think with CJ you likely are looking at variant of the sophomore slump.  It didn't come week 1 of year 2.  Showed itself late last year and continues on this year.    

CJ has the talent to play in this league.  He already proved that.  The first real test after you can prove you got what it takes.....is can you overcome NFL teams really getting to know you (which to me is what a sophomore slump is). 

I think this is true. He is still showing flashes, but his consistency is shot imo. I hope they get him OL help.

[mav1234]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The worry with CJ is that he is Trevor Lawrence. That's basically the worst case NFL QB scenario. Supreme talent and flashes enough to get a top 8 QB contract but never really truly improves to much more than a slightly above average NFL starter with an elite price tag. 

So, while we definitely got the lesser of the two QB's, it is possible we don't end up as badly, depending on Stroud's ultimate career arc. Bryce will never see that kind of contract, so we ducked that, at least.

to me, Trevor and CJ (what we are projecting with this post) are what people want to claim Bryce is.  If you put enough talent around Trevor and CJ......you can win and compete.  And I think you can.  It just will be inconsistent.    But w/ great talent can a Trevor or CJ get hot and make some nice runs? I think so.  Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle. 

I don't think Bryce projects as that.  His ceiling of play is just way too different than those types.   They have tools he doesn't and their good days can just be better. 

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

[Beast_3000]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

but Carson Wentz isn't a rookie and the Vikings just hung 48 on the Bengals last week.  0 yards. 

I would say it a combo of 2 things, AT is another year older and the Vikings have a solid TE in TJ Hock.   

and AT basically become a TE in Carolina that we over fed. 

Yeah that 48 points hung was because of the defense. Wentz was more a game manager last week. TJ Hockenson hasn't done much this season either.  I watched that game and the Vikings suffocated the Bengals. The  defense caused 5 turnovers, one being a pick 6. I was speaking to the macrocosm not the anomaly from last week.

 

 We agree on AT’s age.

[CRA]

Just now, Beast_3000 said:

Yeah that 48 points hung was because of the defense. Wentz was more a game manager last week. TJ Hockenson hasn't done much this season either.  I watched that game and the Vikings suffocated the Bengals. The  defense caused 5 turnovers, one being a pick 6. I was speaking to the macrocosm not the anomaly from last week.

 

 We agree on AT’s age.

Sure, but again, the Vikings still put up 350+ yards of offense while putting up that 48.  They were in the offensive dreamworld.  See some of that 2015 Panthers game.  That's when an O can really have some fun. 

I'm not saying TJ is great.  But the Vikings actually have a TE.   AT doesn't really have a place in that offense.  He can't play on the outside.  He isn't actually a slot WR (too slow and no YAC). 

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

to me, Trevor and CJ (what we are projecting with this post) are what people want to claim Bryce is.  If you put enough talent around Trevor and CJ......you can win and compete.  And I think you can.  It just will be inconsistent.    But w/ great talent can a Trevor or CJ get hot and make some nice runs? I think so.  Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle. 

I don't think Bryce projects as that.  His ceiling of play is just way too different than those types.   They have tools he doesn't and their good days can just be better. 

The issue with that "lightning in a bottle" is that's too close to Dilfer/Foles/Delhomme/etc for a top 5-10 QB contract. It's crippling to the roster eventually at that price tag. It's a pricier QB purgatory.

Bryce's ceiling was supposed to be a Brees type guy. Sees the field extremely well, makes quick decisions with the ball and analyzes the situation pre-snap at an elite level. None of this has transpired at all. Not to mention, his physical ceiling is far closer to a non-athletic Doug Flutie or poor man's Colt McCoy.

That is not a long term NFL QB.

[NAS]

Wait, how did this turn into a CJ vs. Bryce debate? 

[mav1234]

7 minutes ago, NAS said:

Wait, how did this turn into a CJ vs. Bryce debate? 

Someone randomly brought up how Bryce was better than CJ lol