Bryce Young has now played one full seasons worth of games since returning from his benching in 2024

[tukafan21]

21 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

No that's not what average means, you're thinking of just starting QB's. There's around 80 QB's in the NFL. Average means exactly what it would mean anywhere else in the world. 

So you want to compare Bryce's arm to the backup and 3rd string QB's in the league while using that basis for why he can be a successful starting QB in this league?

Do you not realize how crazy that is to say?

We're not debating our backup QB's arm strength, we're talking about the starting QB and #1 overall pick.  You don't compare that to backups and practice squad 3rd string QB's.

Trying to say "average" means including those is quite literally one of the most nonsensical stances I've ever heard when debating an athletes merits.

It's like trying to compare a starting NBA SG's 3 point shooting to every player in the league, going to the 15 man deep rosters of guys who bounce around in the G-League, and saying that player is an "average 3 point shooter" for someone who starts and plays 30 minutes a game.

Because sure, by definition, that player likely would be an "average 3 point shooter" when you're adding in the skills of backup forwards and the like.  But in no world is that same player an actual average 3 point shooter for an NBA starter.

Edited 3 hours ago by tukafan21

[tukafan21]

6 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

So you want to compare Bryce's arm to the backup and 3rd string QB's in the league while using that basis for why he can be a successful starting QB in this league?

Do you not realize how crazy that is to say?

We're not debating our backup QB's arm strength, we're talking about the starting QB and #1 overall pick.  You don't compare that to backups and practice squad 3rd string QB's.

Trying to say "average" means including those is quite literally one of the most nonsensical stances I've ever heard when debating an athletes merits.

It's like trying to compare a starting NBA SG's 3 point shooting to every player in the league, going to the 15 man deep rosters of guys who bounce around in the G-League, and saying that player is an "average 3 point shooter" for someone who starts and plays 30 minutes a game.

Because sure, by definition, that player likely would be an "average 3 point shooter" when you're adding in the skills of backup forwards and the like.  But in no world is that same player an actual average 3 point shooter for an NBA starter.

Oh, and to add to this...

What makes this even crazier is that when you include all those backups, odds are, it still doesn't even give him an "average arm strength" in the NFL.  

As a lot of NFL backups actually have very strong arms, it's the rest of their game, such as mental side or accuracy, as to why they aren't a starter.  It's their strong arm that keeps them on rosters as it makes them good practice squad QB's and then if the starter goes down, at least they have someone who can still sling the rock physically at an NFL level, even if their accuracy and decision making isn't up to par.

[carpanfan96]

22 minutes ago, Castavar said:

So let me get this straight. You claim that if Bryce can set his feet, he can "throw the ball 55-60 yards air yards and do it accurately" per you. You then send my college highlights (even though Bryce has been in the NFL going on 3 years), and then send me his "highlights" last year where his longest completed pass was only 35 yards? You can't be serious right now.

I told you where to look, there's a long highlight video that's easy to find where there's a 50 yard air throw to Thielen and multiple 20+ yard air throws. I just shared a small clip that featured under pressure throws. 

 

[electro's horse]

2 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

I told you where to look, there's a long highlight video that's easy to find where there's a 50 yard air throw to Thielen and multiple 20+ yard air throws. I just shared a small clip that featured under pressure throws. 

 

40? Or are you counting air yards

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iBZY75KLCwE

either way it's more of an exception that proves the rule 

Edited 2 hours ago by electro's horse

[carpanfan96]

22 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

So you want to compare Bryce's arm to the backup and 3rd string QB's in the league while using that basis for why he can be a successful starting QB in this league?

Do you not realize how crazy that is to say?

We're not debating our backup QB's arm strength, we're talking about the starting QB and #1 overall pick.  You don't compare that to backups and practice squad 3rd string QB's.

Trying to say "average" means including those is quite literally one of the most nonsensical stances I've ever heard when debating an athletes merits.

It's like trying to compare a starting NBA SG's 3 point shooting to every player in the league, going to the 15 man deep rosters of guys who bounce around in the G-League, and saying that player is an "average 3 point shooter" for someone who starts and plays 30 minutes a game.

Because sure, by definition, that player likely would be an "average 3 point shooter" when you're adding in the skills of backup forwards and the like.  But in no world is that same player an actual average 3 point shooter for an NBA starter.

That literally what a draft profile is, it compares a player to the players at his position, not just starters. So no it's not crazy because that's how it freaking works. Lol

[carpanfan96]

Just now, electro's horse said:

40?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iBZY75KLCwE

Air yards. It's from where he throws the ball at, which is the 50 yard line and Thielen catches it at the goal line. But yes that's one of them. 

[electro's horse]

his longest air throw was probably the sideline catch to Chark against green bay if I'm remembering right, because of how triangles works. 

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, carpanfan96 said:

That literally what a draft profile is, it compares a player to the players at his position, not just starters. So no it's not crazy because that's how it freaking works. Lol

No, just flat out, no.

I’m not even sure that’s accurate for any position in the NFL when you’re grading out 1st round prospects.

But even more so when you’re evaluating a QB.

If you think any team or evaluator is comparing QB’s you’re drafting to be a starter, to backups and 3rd stringers, then I honestly don’t even know how to respond to that.  I’ve heard lots of crazy arguments on message boards, but that would take the cake, by a very wide margin.

You’re literally comparing the skill sets of the most important position in all of the sporting world, to guys who can go a decade long career and never throw a meaningful pass in a game.

[carpanfan96]

Even with all of this, he's not a long term starting QB. Which I said prior to the draft. 

 

You've got to scheme his throws over the middle open by creating lanes for him to see the field.

So his best throws are to the boundary outside the numbers. That's where he excels largely.

For his size to throw over the middle, he's got to trust the play and the receiver to be where they are supposed to be. 

That leaves a large part of the field he's not going to see or naturally want to throw the ball to without the line breaking down or being schemed to have an open lane to see the middle of the field. 

 

 

[carpanfan96]

2 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

No, just flat out, no.

I’m not even sure that’s accurate for any position in the NFL when you’re grading out 1st round prospects.

But even more so when you’re evaluating a QB.

If you think any team or evaluator is comparing QB’s you’re drafting to be a starter, to backups and 3rd stringers, then I honestly don’t even know how to respond to that.  I’ve heard lots of crazy arguments on message boards, but that would take the cake, by a very wide margin.

You’re literally comparing the skill sets of the most important position in all of the sporting world, to guys who can go a decade long career and never throw a meaningful pass in a game.

I'm literally telling you that is in fact how it works. You don't compare players to starters when only like 10% of drafted players develop into long term starters.

You compare them to every rostered player at their position. 

Their skills, traits, athleticism is based off of that. 

Do they have above average athleticism for their position, well their position includes backups and starters. 

[tukafan21]

9 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

I'm literally telling you that is in fact how it works. You don't compare players to starters when only like 10% of drafted players develop into long term starters.

You compare them to every rostered player at their position. 

Their skills, traits, athleticism is based off of that. 

Do they have above average athleticism for their position, well their position includes backups and starters. 

If there were handfuls of backup QB's who were good enough to be starters in this league, then you'd have an argument on your hands.  But when there are current starting QB's who aren't even good enough to actually be starting QB's in this league, you can't then compare a supposed to be franchise QB to those back-ups.

QB is the most unique position in all of sports, by a very very wide margin.  

Trying to compare your starting QB to the backups as a selling point for said starting QB is such a crazy notion that it hurts my brain to think how anyone could honestly think that's the case.

It basically would be like comparing a MLB player to the "average professional baseball player" and looking at all minor leaguers in that as well.

Saying Bryce has an "average arm" when he's literally likely ranked 32nd out of the 32 starting QB's in arm strength is ceratinly some hill to die on.

Edited 2 hours ago by tukafan21

[RumHam]

18 hours ago, Car123 said:

His total stats in those games:

335/543 (61.7% completion percentage)

3,392 passing yards (199.5 per game)

292 rushing yards and 6 rushing TD

32 total TD

11 INTS

8-9 record (inc 6 game winning drives)

87.0 passer rating

bro literally will do anything but throw for 200 yards in a game. 199.5 jfc

[tukafan21]

16 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

I'm literally telling you that is in fact how it works. You don't compare players to starters when only like 10% of drafted players develop into long term starters.

You compare them to every rostered player at their position. 

Their skills, traits, athleticism is based off of that. 

Do they have above average athleticism for their position, well their position includes backups and starters. 

And poo... now that I think about it, you're trying to say he has "average or slightly below average arm strength" but saying that in comparison to the what, 90ish QB's currently on a roster or practice squad right now?

So your argument FOR our QB is that he has about the 45-60ish strongest arm in the NFL and you think that's a winning argument in support of Bryce?

And actually, you're really comparing him to draft profiles, which by your definition would then also include all the guys who can't make rosters or even practice squads.

So really, you're saying because he has an average to below average arm strength of all the players who tried to make it in the NFL in recent memory, he has a strong enough arm to be a successful starting QB in this league.

again, I have to say it, JFC

Edited 2 hours ago by tukafan21

[TN05]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

And poo... now that I think about it, you're trying to say he has "average or slightly below average arm strength" but saying that in comparison to the what, 90ish QB's currently on a roster or practice squad right now?

So your argument FOR our QB is that he has about the 45-60ish strongest arm in the NFL and you think that's a winning argument in support of Bryce?

If arm strength decided who the best QB was JaMarcus Russell would have been a hall of famer