Bryce Young now leads the NFL in game-winning drives since his debut

[kungfoodude]

23 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I think you are comparing a comeback win versus a game winning drive. If you are down in the 1st half until you score on 1 drive that wins you a 7-3 game how do you decide if that's a comeback win or a game winning drive? Is it both? You stat nerds give me a headache. I need a beer.

I don't think there is any definitive criteria for "comeback wins." 

Game Winning Drives was something developed and has set criteria.

I look at GWD as basically useful for giving some insight into the totality of a career and the accomplishments. If a player has a lot of GWD or 4QC(4th Quarter Comebacks) in comparison to similar peers, one could use it as the basis or starting point for a debate on how "clutch" a player might be. 

I don't think I would utilize it much more than something along those lines because it's very specific and not really indicative of overall quality of a player.

[CRA]

8 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't think there is any definitive criteria for "comeback wins." 

Game Winning Drives was something developed and has set criteria.

I look at GWD as basically useful for giving some insight into the totality of a career and the accomplishments. If a player has a lot of GWD or 4QC(4th Quarter Comebacks) in comparison to similar peers, one could use it as the basis or starting point for a debate on how "clutch" a player might be. 

I don't think I would utilize it much more than something along those lines because it's very specific and not really indicative of overall quality of a player.

You could ask on being "clutch".....is how many times does a GWD scenario present itself and you pull it off is required to actually be deemed clutch. 

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't think there is any definitive criteria for "comeback wins." 

Game Winning Drives was something developed and has set criteria.

I look at GWD as basically useful for giving some insight into the totality of a career and the accomplishments. If a player has a lot of GWD or 4QC(4th Quarter Comebacks) in comparison to similar peers, one could use it as the basis or starting point for a debate on how "clutch" a player might be. 

I don't think I would utilize it much more than something along those lines because it's very specific and not really indicative of overall quality of a player.

It really should only be applied per season. If you want to guage if you to track per season average or trend that's really the only time it matters beyond 1 season. 

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

A could question to ask on being "clutch".....is how many times does a GWD scenario present itself and you pull it off is required to actually be deemed clutch. 

Its a double edged sword. In order to comeback you either were never in the lead or lost it at some point. There's no data point for that. 

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

Its a double edged sword. In order to comeback you either were never in the lead or lost it at some point. There's no data point for that. 

Bryce Young to me doesn't pass the eye test of clutch.  To me, big moments are all over the map and game.  Biggest play in the game could be in the 3rd quarter for example.   Bryce is bad in a lot of really big moments in games. 

[PNW_PantherMan]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

You could ask on being "clutch".....is how many times does a GWD scenario present itself and you pull it off is required to actually be deemed clutch. 

You just can't measure if a guy is that dude or not with numbers.  The whole notion of GWD as a statistic is borderline useless.  All it tells you is how many times a team took the lead in the 4th quarter and won the game.

There's so many factors baked into that both on and off the field.  The way coaches adjust in the games.  The way referees call games.  Injuries, weather, luck, etc.

The reason this particular topic is so funny is because nobody realized it even happened.  You didn't need a post summing up all of Jake's game winning drives to realize they actually happened.  Everyone knew Jake was that dude because he drove the team down into scoring range every single week.

The slumdog millionaire run of pass interference calls, etc.  There's just too many of them that are not even worth talking about.

[Jackson113.2]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

Bryce Young to me doesn't pass the eye test of clutch.  To me, big moments are all over the map and game.  Biggest play in the game could be in the 3rd quarter for example.   Bryce is bad in a lot of really big moments in games. 

Some of his roll outs into sacks are pretty bad..

[strato]

3 hours ago, Shocker said:

Haters grasping at straws atp.  If you can’t give Young credit for these comebacks I hate it for you

We aren’t even talking about him specifically  at this point.

Can you yourself not make everything about him and objectively look at the stat and our criticism of it? 

Edited 1 hour ago by strato

[kungfoodude]

47 minutes ago, CRA said:

You could ask on being "clutch".....is how many times does a GWD scenario present itself and you pull it off is required to actually be deemed clutch. 

I don't think that would garner any useful information. It would probably only be useful in relation to another player and their career.

46 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

It really should only be applied per season. If you want to guage if you to track per season average or trend that's really the only time it matters beyond 1 season. 

I don't think a season block is useful in any way. GWD data is only useful for career length timespans, IMO.

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't think that would garner any useful information. It would probably only be useful in relation to another player and their career.

I don't think a season block is useful in any way. GWD data is only useful for career length timespans, IMO.

Then I see no use for it beyond saying "hey, that was a hell of a comeback". Its really a team stat anyway as it takes the entire team to fully execute a comeback. Game winning drive or not. Besides, every game a team wins could be considered due to the game winning drive at some point in the game. Its just a useless stat unless you isolate it to the qb's contribution only.

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Then I see no use for it beyond saying "hey, that was a hell of a comeback". Its really a team stat anyway as it takes the entire team to fully execute a comeback. Game winning drive or not. Besides, every game a team wins could be considered due to the game winning drive at some point in the game. Its just a useless stat unless you isolate it to the qb's contribution only.

That's why I say it probably mainly has uses in terms of comparing player versus player in terms of career accomplishments.

If X and Y players have 150 career starts, a larger percentage of GWD/4QC could indicate a player is more "clutch." 

As you say, that's really probably more of a detailed look once you have the basic data.

[CRA]

45 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

. Its just a useless stat unless you isolate it to the qb's contribution only.

If you pick the right games, you could take 3 of those GWDs and add up all the Bryce contributions together….and you could get a total of just 1 pass where he threw it 5 yards downfield.  

if you watched those games, the final drive was “won” by guys that weren’t the QB

most isolated singular stats are largely garbage.  It would be like looking at QB INTs and then thinking if a guy has 5 INTs he has made less dumb throws than the guy with 8 INTs.   Maybe the dude with 8 had WRs tip up a lot good passes and had a couple Hail Marys going into half….