Should Canalas bring someone else in to call offensive plays?

[strato]

I don’t see how it is supposed to work when Canales has his mini me as OC by title, but is de facto OC. How do you inject a play caller from the outside into that situation? 

Edited January 14 by strato

[kungfoodude]

11 minutes ago, strato said:

I don’t see how it is supposed to work when Canales has his mini me as OC by title, but is de facto OC. How do you inject a play caller from the outside into that situation? 

It would work by bringing in someone competent.

[strato]

11 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It would work by bringing in someone competent.

Not what I was looking for there.  You, I believe, would advocate forcing the issue and getting Canales out if possible. 
 

I am looking at if I am Canales oholding a 6 year contract with 4 years left and just won the division and almost an upset in the playoffs, and has that stadium rocking…

And you want me to give up my autonomy and likely demote or terminate my right hand guy… I would likely dig in my heels. You would have to push it hard. Too hard. You will have big time upset Apple cart.  
 

For me, I can’t see how Idzik is any better at it. We looked at that in preseason and IIRC people were bitching. 
 

But someone bitches about every single thing that is done or not done so who knows….

[csx]

That would be a nail in his coffin.

Edited January 14 by csx

[kungfoodude]

43 minutes ago, strato said:

Not what I was looking for there.  You, I believe, would advocate forcing the issue and getting Canales out if possible. 
 

I am looking at if I am Canales oholding a 6 year contract with 4 years left and just won the division and almost an upset in the playoffs, and has that stadium rocking…

And you want me to give up my autonomy and likely demote or terminate my right hand guy… I would likely dig in my heels. You would have to push it hard. Too hard. You will have big time upset Apple cart.  
 

For me, I can’t see how Idzik is any better at it. We looked at that in preseason and IIRC people were bitching. 
 

But someone bitches about every single thing that is done or not done so who knows….

Well Canales is already a bottom 3 OC and bottom 5 HC. How much worse is it possible to get?

[strato]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Well Canales is already a bottom 3 OC and bottom 5 HC. How much worse is it possible to get?

Well that just wasn’t the question that I asked. The bottom this and that has been discussed and will be discussed again. 

It is a very similar situation to Bryce. Both their jobs are safe right now as far as I can tell. 

[MHS831]

Here is how I see it...You can talk to the QB until 15 seconds before the play clock expires.  There are reasons to believe that Canales is spending a lot of time gathering information from those in better position to make the decisions.  Have you noticed how often we break the huddle between 15 and 13 seconds remaining?  I have a theory...

1. Canales is on the sideline.  His view of the field is not as good as the OC, who is sitting in the box in the sky--he can see the defense, spacing, substitutions, etc.  This means that Canales must get information from up top before selecting a play.

2. Canales has to spend time during the week with the defense, special teams, etc. in addition to the offense.  The OC is with the offense all week.  He knows the plays that were run well in practice--he knows the nicks and dings they might be complaining about--he knows their questions and input about certain plays, formations, etc.  Canales may be aware, but not AS aware. 

3.  Canales likes the moniker "QB whisperer."  He may feel more confident being the voice in Bryce's helmet because he is Bryce's mentor. 

Just a theory--but Canales could be the play caller because Bryce is the QB and he is trying to literally whisper into the QB ear.

Edited January 14 by MHS831

[strato]

13 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Here is how I see it...You can talk to the QB until 15 seconds before the play clock expires.  There are reasons to believe that Canales is spending a lot of time gathering information from those in better position to make the decisions.  Have you noticed how often we break the huddle between 15 and 13 seconds remaining?  I have a theory...

1. Canales is on the sideline.  His view of the field is not as good as the OC, who is sitting in the box in the sky--he can see the defense, spacing, substitutions, etc.  This means that Canales must get information from up top before selecting a play.

2. Canales has to spend time during the week with the defense, special teams, etc. in addition to the offense.  The OC is with the offense all week.  He knows the plays that were run well in practice--he knows the nicks and dings they might be complaining about--he knows their questions and input about certain plays, formations, etc.  Canales may be aware, but not AS aware. 

3.  Canales likes the moniker "QB whisperer."  He may feel more confident being the voice in Bryce's helmet because he is Bryce's mentor. 

Just a theory--but Canales could be the play caller because Bryce is the QB and he is trying to literally whisper into the QB ear.

You one of those guys that watched The Sopranos for the Tony and Dr Melli scenes? Pretty deep psychological motivations there. 
 

That headset cutoff, that came up in a discussion about pre snap. The claim was the defense waits until Canales is muted to show their hand, leaving Bryce with dirty underwear a lot of times. 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, strato said:

Well that just wasn’t the question that I asked. The bottom this and that has been discussed and will be discussed again. 

It is a very similar situation to Bryce. Both their jobs are safe right now as far as I can tell. 

I did answer your initial question with my intial answer.

Also, you are aware this already happened? He didn't have any say in getting Evero.

[strato]

29 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I did answer your initial question with my intial answer.

Also, you are aware this already happened? He didn't have any say in getting Evero.

We could quibble about was that an answer to what I asked but I  don’t see it as being one. Look, he agreed to this Evero thing. Up front. Apparently anyway. Took the job with those conditions in place. I buy that and will work off of it. 
This play calling issue isn’t the same thing. I am not in the mood to delve into Canales’ shortcomings and get out the pitchforks at the moment.
I will abstain from that topic and stick to the quandary the dissenters who want to usurp his play calling power, find themselves in. As far as that goes I am still on the fence and think the play calling is Bryce centric and the play selection/playbook is affected. That does not mean I know that if the playbook was open he would be great play caller. Just that he is hampered right now. 

Inserting an OC not of Canales’ approval changes the original parameters of the assumed agreement. 
Unless you think Tepper placed a contractual prescription to allow Tepper to dictate that he can insert a play caller of his choosing after a time period if he is not satisfied with Canales’ work. 
Which, do you really think that is in play?  I do not. 
 

Unless it is, Canales has the option to yea or nay. As I said, it could be forced on him. But they only do that if they want him out. 
And as of now his stock is up, I would have to say I don’t own any but I think it is up. He had the stadium rocking, the team in the playoffs, and has that sorry lil draft pick trending upward. Even at this very low rate.  I think he has ‘hand’ right now as they say on Seinfeld. This is something that may get play in the 2026 season, not now. IMO. 
 

 

Edited January 14 by strato

[PNW_PantherMan]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

My translator says something quite a bit different.

I think Canales stays as OC and it ends up getting him fired after the 2026 season.

The whole thing is setting itself up that way.  Run it back and the law of averages says about 4-5 wins.  I think at a minimum Tepper would force Canales to hire a rock star OC.  But he’d probably just fire everyone.

[strato]

27 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

The whole thing is setting itself up that way.  Run it back and the law of averages says about 4-5 wins.  I think at a minimum Tepper would force Canales to hire a rock star OC.  But he’d probably just fire everyone.

I watched the Morgan presser just now. The Evero extension was to align the contract with Canales’.  Whatever that really means. Morgan sort of made a point of putting it that way.  
 

You could infer a fair amount from that move.
For one, it lines up with the thing you guys are saying. Total reboot. Contracts are aligned. 

Edited January 14 by strato

[Moonraker]

If you bring in an OC to call plays and he's a stud he will be gone in 1 year and you are right back where you started (over and over again). 

[flagfootballcoach28]

We have no evidence that Canales is a forward thinker who is willing to make uncomfortable decisions for the betterment of the team. He seems very non confrontational, those types of people won’t make changes unless forced to. Dan Morgan is the same mold as Canales. Which means if changes are made, it’ll only come from one man. That man is David Tepper. But it most likely won’t be until next season.