Harbaugh headed to Giants

[Khyber53]

44 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I suspect it will not go well. They certainly have some talent but still lack a QB and some other pieces.

At best, they might rise to fringe playoff competitor. 

Now, this is also with the prospect of Washington about to be going through a HC change and Philly in turmoil. Could end up backing into a weak division.

I don't know. Dart looks like he has potential and Harbaugh has experience with dealing with that kind of QB and helping him elevate to reach his full capabilities. Lamar Jackson was pretty raw, but gifted when he started out, but now he's looking at a legendary type career.

And Harbaugh seems to have a steady, guiding hand on organizations. That may just be what the Giants need. They've been rudderless for a long time.

Not that I really care, though... but I do like anyone who can make the seasons tougher for the Cowboys and Washington. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Khyber53 said:

I don't know. Dart looks like he has potential and Harbaugh has experience with dealing with that kind of QB and helping him elevate to reach his full capabilities. Lamar Jackson was pretty raw, but gifted when he started out, but now he's looking at a legendary type career.

And Harbaugh seems to have a steady, guiding hand on organizations. That may just be what the Giants need. They've been rudderless for a long time.

Not that I really care, though... but I do like anyone who can make the seasons tougher for the Cowboys and Washington. 

I am not a Dart believer. As I have said, Lane Kiffin QB's are extremely ill prepared for the NFL. I don't see much difference other than Dart being a big athlete. That's great but he also has zero sense of self preservation and he is likely to sustain several serious injuries if he does not figure this out.

Lamar was at least smart enough early in his career to understand the need to avoid those kind of hits. Most successful QB's figure that out(even Josh Allen had to). 

As for Harbaugh, he is a good coach but I do question if he will be given the time and resources to build there. It could be a prime location for a big time free agent QB once the Dart thing fails. That's not nothing.

[MHS831]

10 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/report-giants-working-finalize-deal-050255181.html

Looks like he's headed to NY. At least it's not the NFCS.

His brother did not want him in the AFC--he said that--so if that was a factor, maybe we dodged a bullet. 

Funny, but an old college teammate who played in the NFL asked me recently, "Name 5 coaches in the NFL you would love to play for"  which caused me to think for a while.  Based on my learning style and what little I know of the NFL coaches, I responded:  1. John Harbaugh, 2. Mike Vrabel, 3.  Mike Tomlin, 4. Demeco Ryans, and 5.  Andy Reid.   

He asked the same question about coaches I would not like to play for, and all I could come up with is 1. Jim Harbaugh and 2. Josh McDaniels. Not sure about the others, but I would have put Bill Bellichick on the list.  I heard that the did not like Kevin Stephanski for reasons I do not like in a coach.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

His brother did not want him in the AFC--he said that--so if that was a factor, maybe we dodged a bullet. 

Funny, but an old college teammate who played in the NFL asked me recently, "Name 5 coaches in the NFL you would love to play for"  which caused me to think for a while.  Based on my learning style and what little I know of the NFL coaches, I responded:  1. John Harbaugh, 2. Mike Vrabel, 3.  Mike Tomlin, 4. Demeco Ryans, and 5.  Andy Reid.   

He asked the same question about coaches I would not like to play for, and all I could come up with is 1. Jim Harbaugh and 2. Josh McDaniels. Not sure about the others, but I would have put Bill Bellichick on the list.  I heard that the did not like Kevin Stephanski for reasons I do not like in a coach.

If any of the things were true about Brian Flores, I would add him.

Edit: Brian Daboll, as well. What a raging cVnt that guy was.

Edited 6 hours ago by kungfoodude

[strato]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

As for Harbaugh, he is a good coach but I do question if he will be given the time and resources to build there. It could be a prime location for a big time free agent QB once the Dart thing fails. That's not nothing.

My only concrete thought about this is Harbaugh has the track record and rep to withstand dips in success. Like, Caughlin got a lot of leeway from the Maras in some lean years. 
 

The people they have put into the job lately  were not established and could not get themselves established, I don’t think the same level of security was there for them. 

Edited 6 hours ago by strato

[Jackie Lee]

Gotta say they have dick for cap space this year so I don't know how much he can improve the roster outside of the draft. At the same time they have a lot of good players underperforming so will be interesting how much he can do with the same tools as last year. 

[strato]

12 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Gotta say they have dick for cap space this year so I don't know how much he can improve the roster outside of the draft. At the same time they have a lot of good players underperforming so will be interesting how much he can do with the same tools as last year. 

Might be similar to Fox’s roster when he came here. The bones were there and he whipped them into form. Getting Peppers didn’t hurt but NYG also have a high pick to get some help with. 

1-15 when came in, got it to 7-9, then to 11-5. 2 years. But 1-15 to 7-9 tells you that was an underachieving team in 2001. 

Edited 5 hours ago by strato

[Jackie Lee]

1 minute ago, strato said:

Might be similar to Fox’s roster when he came here. The bones were there and he whipped them into form. Getting Peppers didn’t hurt but NYG also have a high pick to get some help with. 

 

Yeah they can get a good player at #5

[Khyber53]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I am not a Dart believer. As I have said, Lane Kiffin QB's are extremely ill prepared for the NFL. I don't see much difference other than Dart being a big athlete. That's great but he also has zero sense of self preservation and he is likely to sustain several serious injuries if he does not figure this out.

Lamar was at least smart enough early in his career to understand the need to avoid those kind of hits. Most successful QB's figure that out(even Josh Allen had to). 

As for Harbaugh, he is a good coach but I do question if he will be given the time and resources to build there. It could be a prime location for a big time free agent QB once the Dart thing fails. That's not nothing.

I'll be honest with you, since they got into the NIL rules and quicker transfer portals, the quality of QBs coming out of college has sucked across the board.

The ones who seem to do the best are the ones who sat a year or two on a bench, then had a year or two on the field under the same coaching staff, learning the game, how to manage and how to lead. Those guys are almost unheard of now. 

I know college football was monetized decades ago, but when they just tore the lid off of it, they made a mess of the game. (And let's not even touch how they have screwed education...)/

[toldozer]

12 hours ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

I'm more worried about Falcons getting McDaniel than Harbaugh tbh

I don't think McDaniel wants to put himself in another bad QB situation. I'd definitely take the Detroit oc job over atl head gig if I'm him

[kungfoodude]

39 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

I'll be honest with you, since they got into the NIL rules and quicker transfer portals, the quality of QBs coming out of college has sucked across the board.

The ones who seem to do the best are the ones who sat a year or two on a bench, then had a year or two on the field under the same coaching staff, learning the game, how to manage and how to lead. Those guys are almost unheard of now. 

I know college football was monetized decades ago, but when they just tore the lid off of it, they made a mess of the game. (And let's not even touch how they have screwed education...)/

QB quality has been up and down long before the NIL. In the end, I think it will have a big net positive NFL impact on QB specifically as it has kept QB's that would have been incentivized to leave early to stay in school and either get more development or get more game tape to evaluate properly. This has already been evident with a lot of players dropping precipitously as they stay in college and prove they are not first round caliber QB's.

The transfer portal has also had a big net positive impact on prospects overall because it gives you the ability to evaluate them in different systems and situations. It has removed a ton of risk from NFL evaluations as a result.

[strato]

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

I'll be honest with you, since they got into the NIL rules and quicker transfer portals, the quality of QBs coming out of college has sucked across the board.

The ones who seem to do the best are the ones who sat a year or two on a bench, then had a year or two on the field under the same coaching staff, learning the game, how to manage and how to lead. Those guys are almost unheard of now. 

I know college football was monetized decades ago, but when they just tore the lid off of it, they made a mess of the game. (And let's not even touch how they have screwed education...)/

It has been going down that backyard ball road with the QBs a long time. It also has made it more difficult to evaluate OL for the pro game. 
 

I agree though that the NIL is making it even worse. Then they get in the league and suck, coaches get fired. Here comes a new system every year for some of them, same as you are talking about in college. 
 

Unfortunately, IMO, the league has responded by taking the path of least resistance offensively. 
 

The only saving grace for the QB problem we identified here is the slotted salaries out of the draft. No more 100 million rookie deals. Which today would be 250 million and even more. 

So to me, paying a player that doesn’t bring success in the first two or three years, you can’t do it. Better to take another shot in the draft or reclaim someone else's failure. Given that all staffs are not equal. Look what Shanahan did with Purdy for instance. And their getting off of Lance quickly. 
 

In theory if Canales is a QB whisperer type, which we don’t know he isn’t at least to a higher degree than many (not including the established masters) we should be quicker on the trigger with these QBs. If Bryce doesn’t show out next year we really need to hit the reset. 

[strato]

42 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think it will have a big net positive NFL impact on QB specifically as it has kept QB's that would have been incentivized to leave early to stay in school and either get more development or get more game tape to evaluate properly.

That is probably a good point that I did not consider. It doesn’t force their hand financially, to declare early. 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, strato said:

That is probably a good point that I did not consider. It doesn’t force their hand financially, to declare early. 

Yes, this has happened several times already. Moore being a current example. 

It is overwhelmingly a net positive for the NFL.