I do not want Newton, Do you?

[teeray]

I need to back up some also bc I don't think Matt Moore sucks, i am just not sure he can be the type of QB that can win a Super Bowl. My original beef was with cherry picking stats in favor of Moore by TRD and them him attacking those of us who reference the Dave Hyde piece on Cam Newton which uses a bunch of stuff from the last 6 games of Auburn's season.

But I fell into a trap of pooing on Moore :lol:

[mav1234]

It may mean more but some have tried to say that it means nothing. They have pretty much said we can only use stats from his starts. And regardless it is still cherry picking stats. Much in the same way people accuse Huggers of cherry picking stats when we use the last 6 games of the season as the best games to judge Cam because at the beginning of the year he was still learning the playbook and adjusting to big time football

Well, if you're going to compare stats for whatever reason, you should really be sure you're doing it in a way that compares them evenly. Starts is one way to do that, because it's generally assumed you will have had decent preparation if you're starting, at least for some amount of time. Personally, I don't think stats tell you all that much without perspective, and that's part of why people try to use stats from starts; it at least provides some perspective, but you can make them tell you almost anything you want.

On Newton, I just wonder why it's the last 6. Why leave out LSU? Why not go with the last 4? Why not the last 8? What is it about 6? Is that when his coaches said he'd grasped the offense? Honestly curious with that.

[teeray]

Well, if you're going to compare stats for whatever reason, you should really be sure you're doing it in a way that compares them evenly. Starts is one way to do that, because it's generally assumed you will have had decent preparation if you're starting, at least for some amount of time. Personally, I don't think stats tell you all that much without perspective, and that's part of why people try to use stats from starts; it at least provides some perspective, but you can make them tell you almost anything you want.

On Newton, I just wonder why it's the last 6. Why leave out LSU? Why not go with the last 4? Why not the last 8? What is it about 6? Is that when his coaches said he'd grasped the offense? Honestly curious with that.

Probably an educated guess. After the LSU game you saw a big change in the play calling. The offense was a lot more open and more complex than it was before that point. Very similar to when you are starting a freshman QB they kept it very simple early in the season because they are adjusting to the talent and learning a playbook. The offense changed by the time they got to the SEC championship game; it was completely different than you wold have seen in firs South Carolina game. If you watched the games this year you see an honest to goodness shift in philosophy and complexity after the LSU game.

Or maybe they chose them bc if helped make their case :o. The main reason I give it some credibility is because it is the most recent data (in other words in wasn't 6 random games they are the 6 most recent games), it was a relatively large sample, and you see the shift in play calling if you watch the games.

[teeray]

The larger point is don't attack some people for cherry picking stats and then do it yourself in an even more egregious manner. If you count starts, count 2010 starts as well. Don't pick his 4 best games ever and hold it up as the only stats that truly count.

Or if you do don't be a hypocrite when others point to Cam's last 6 games to make a point.

[Ashor]

The offense changed by the time they got to the SEC championship game; it was completely different than you wold have seen in firs South Carolina game. If you watched the games this year you see an honest to goodness shift in philosophy and complexity after the LSU game.

How can you possibly make this kind of statement? By watching a few games and seeing plays that you haven't seen before? You act as though they sent you film to break down and analyze. They went undefeated mainly because of Newton's rushing ability. What was different about their offense? All of your statements are speculative because unless you are Newton, you wouldn't know anything about how Auburn ran its offense for sure.

[Catalyst]

CAM NEWTON!!! :willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly: :beatdeadhorse5:

[MadHatter]

See, I think Newton's bust potential is extremely low, unless you're expecting him to "redefine the position", which I don't think is going to happen any time soon in the NFL.

Whether he'll be a great QB I have no idea, but I would bet the house he'll at least be pretty good, and for this Panthers team, I'll take it.

If you truly believe that Newton's bust potential is "extremely low", you should give up on football all together and start following Women's Field Hockey.

Even the experts supporting him, and the worst Nut Huggers on this board, understand that he is a very high reward....but high risk pick.

If you are willing to want a player that "at least can be pretty good" with the #1 overall pick, you are making my point at how ridiculous the uninformed Cam Nut Huggers really are.

I hope that our staff picks a guy that "can be pretty good" with the first overall pick.

I hope that you are really not willing to "bet the house" on this type of sucker bet. If so, you and your family are definitely headed to a life of poverty and homelessness.

[DaCityKats]

How can you possibly make this kind of statement? By watching a few games and seeing plays that you haven't seen before? You act as though they sent you film to break down and analyze. They went undefeated mainly because of Newton's rushing ability. What was different about their offense? All of your statements are speculative because unless you are Newton, you wouldn't know anything about how Auburn ran its offense for sure.

ignorance is bliss. anybody that knows anything about football knows what a designed running play looks like compared to a pass. the line about going undefeated because cam's running ability??????

[TheRealDeal]

He has started more than 4 games so... and why not judge him on ALL of his snaps (besides hail mary plays)??

Like I said, I do judge him on all his starts but you have to add perspective to all of those from 2007, 2009, and 2010. When I bring up those 5 games, it's an usually to illustrate the point that with a competent team around him, Moore can be a very good starter.

That is not the same as saying that Moore is statistically similar to Philip Rivers.

Do you see the difference?

NO ONE is claiming that he's similar to P Manning or Brees or Rivers or Rodgers but using the logic that is used to support Cam, he would be. Do you see where the disconnect comes in? Do you see how the arguments are completely different?

[Verge]

[teeray]

That is pretty funny Verge :lol:

[mav1234]

I just know as soon as the draft is over we'll "find out" Cam knew all along etc... at least I suspect so based on Warren Moon's comments.

[Ohio]

We have to get Cam, Deangelo isn't happy with Clausen and would leave, and Jon Beason wants Cam.

You don't want to make those guys mad.

[Ashor]

ignorance is bliss. anybody that knows anything about football knows what a designed running play looks like compared to a pass. the line about going undefeated because cam's running ability??????

You have no idea what you are talking about.