2010 Carolina Panthers Position Review: Defensive End

[rayzor]

via derp

some interesting insights...namely tyler brayton vs. everette brown.

brayton was pathetic. 14 starts and only came up with 22 tackles and no sacks?

meanwhile brown and hardy had few snaps taken in comparison to brayton, but wound up being a whole lot more productive. brown had 25 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 1 FF and 1 INT. hardy had 30 tackles, 3 sacks and 2 FFs.

now it's popular to hate on brown, esp. when you see a rookie doing just as good as he does, but that hate might be a bit misplaced and we might not be getting the whole picture.

from the article...

Everette Brown

2010 Statistics (2 game starter): 25 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 1 FF, 1 INT

Definitely a player whose taken his lumps from fans over the last two years, we are fast approaching the 'put up or shut up' time for Everette Brown. At times I definitely agree with the masses that he has been underwhelming, but the fact is that on a per-snap basis he's trending a lot like Charles Johnson did before he broke out in 2010. Are you ready to be surprised? I was:

According to Football Outsiders' advanced tracking:

- Brown was 15th in the NFL among DEs in overall stop rate (84%)

- Brown was 25th in the NFL among DEs in run stop rate (79%)

So, while he didn't spend a lot of time on the field in 2010, Everette Brown really used his time effectively.

Letter Grade: B

so why didn't brown (or even hardy) get more snaps?

2 things...

1) john fox was still the coach

2) tyler brayton was still on the team

we have seen over and over again throughout the years that fox, unless his hand is forced, is always going to go with the player who has more experience despite that players lack of ability to produce and the more talented player(s) sitting on the bench.

if everette brown isn't living up to the picks that were sacrificed to acquire him, that isn't his fault or hurney's. it's john fox's fault.

now what will likely happen is that tyler brown is history. he isn't under contract. he wasn't supposed to be last year as he was one of the casualties of the house cleaning, but they for some reason decided to bring him back and gave him a one year deal.

we didn't bring in anyone via the draft. beyond johnson (who i have no doubt we will re-sign), brown and hardy, we have hilee taylor and eric norwood. hilee taylor has never been able to take advantage of any opportunities to be on the field. honestly, i forget that he is even on the team half the time. eric norwood has a lot of potential and is supposed to be moving to DE this year.

i can see hilee taylor doing the same thing he's done for years...take up a roster spot, but it might be time for him to move on unless he brings some value as a special teamer.

i'm not sure how many roster spots they are planning to use on the Dline, but do you think we'll go with 5 DEs on the active game day roster? it's hard for me to see more than 4, but that would mean our DE corps would consist of johnson, brown, hardy, and norwood. i think that hardy and brown can do a good job across from johnson, but norwood, although he has a lot of potential, is still an unknown.

if we were to decide to try and have 5 DEs on the game day roster, it would make a lot of sense to bring in someone with a lot more experience. only problem is there isn't a whole lot to choose from in FA. ray edwards is probably going to be too costly and guys like kiwanuka and gholston are the right age for this young team, but both have red flags. guys like shaun ellis, raheem brock, and andre carter have a good bit of experience and a lot of talent, but they are all on the wrong side of 30.

any thoughts on what the best movement would be? go after some younger guy to better the long term competition, or bring in an older guy to make for a better rotation this year?

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

I tend to think we will keep 4; Hardy, Johnson, Norwood, and Brown. Tons of potential in that group, the extra roster spot will be useful to add some depth at the DT position.

[Ivan The Awesome]

You mean to tell me Brown is good?

[rayzor]

he's done well with limited opportunities. should have been given more last year, esp. considering the cost of getting him.

[bleys]

considering it takes the DLine a few years to acclimate themselves to the NFL, I'm not surprised fans shortsightedness gets in the way..

another point worth raising... intellect and being rational shouldn't be that hard of an attribute to acquire. step it up ladies, you're embarrassing the fanbase.

wasn't it Hardy who was a gunner on ST's for a few plays and was out there making tackles? wtf..

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

Not to mention with a push from McClain/Fua and co. (hopefully a vet in FA) these guys will produce even more in the near future.

[jarhead]

Well I think the explanation regarding who gets what snaps is are we defending the run or rushing the qb.Fox may have felt Brown was not up to par defending the run and Brayton was the better option.That can explain why Brayton had few sacks.The bottom line is hardy or Brown need to be a 3 down players and Brayton is getting old.Not trying to defend Brayton because not only did he not have any sacks his tackles were off as well.

[DaCityKats]

thanks rayzor, that's what i been saying. for a starting DE to have 0 sacks is horse crap.i dont care how good he is vs the run, the DE job is to also get to the QB and he didnt do that much this past year. give his snaps to Hardy and Brown and see what happens...

[rayzor]

the thing that was the most surprising to me was how well brown did against the run. i expected him to be ok against the pass, but 25th most effective in the league against the run is pretty impressive. not sure i would want to make him a 3 down guy, but i feel better about him being in the rotation knowing that he can do well with whatever comes at him.

[panthers55]

I doubt we bring in another DE unless someone in free agency is a real deal. At this point we are likely to keep at least 5- Johnson, Hardy, Brown and 2 of the rest- Brayton, Norwood, Taylor. We will need to rotate at least 4 and have at least 1 replacement for injuries. Brayton had a down year last but we didn't get rid of Peppers when he had 2 sacks in 2007 so I don't think we should kick Brayton to the curb. He is good against the run and decent getting pressure. I suspect he will be improved in McDermott's defense.

I think that Johnson will be on the right side and either Hardy, Brown or Brayton will be on the left. I would like to think Hardy will be the guy but he needs to work on his run defense. Brown is also coming into his own this year and should make big strides. This defense is very DE friendly so honestly I think they will have a big year across the board.

[prowler2k8]

Well I think the explanation regarding who gets what snaps is are we defending the run or rushing the qb.Fox may have felt Brown was not up to par defending the run and Brayton was the better option.That can explain why Brayton had few sacks.The bottom line is hardy or Brown need to be a 3 down players and Brayton is getting old.Not trying to defend Brayton because not only did he not have any sacks his tackles were off as well.

This and if I'm not mistaken, Brayton got hurt in the 1st preseason game against Baltimore (knee) and this may have contributed to his lack of production. However, I wouldn't be suprised if Brayton is the odd man out; we'll be okay with CJ, Hardy, Brown, and Norwood.

[rayzor]

I doubt we bring in another DE unless someone in free agency is a real deal. At this point we are likely to keep at least 5- Johnson, Hardy, Brown and 2 of the rest- Brayton, Norwood, Taylor. We will need to rotate at least 4 and have at least 1 replacement for injuries. Brayton had a down year last but we didn't get rid of Peppers when he had 2 sacks in 2007 so I don't think we should kick Brayton to the curb. He is good against the run and decent getting pressure. I suspect he will be improved in McDermott's defense.

I think that Johnson will be on the right side and either Hardy, Brown or Brayton will be on the left. I would like to think Hardy will be the guy but he needs to work on his run defense. Brown is also coming into his own this year and should make big strides. This defense is very DE friendly so honestly I think they will have a big year across the board.

we had a lot more invested in peppers at the time than we do brayton, in which we have nothing invested in at the moment. he's a free agent this year.

if we can find a more talented and younger prospect in FA, we need to be doing that. i can't believe that brayton is the best available option for us.

i would love to see us take a chance on gholston. dude's bust is more due to being miscast from the beginning. he's a 4-3 DE, or at least that was what he was in college. mangini tried turning him into a 3-4 OLB which was a mistake (one of many mangini made. remember the effect that turning to a 3-4 had on vilma?). then ryan turned him into a 3-4 DE. ryan said that gholston improved in that role, but he wasn't sure that he would so they brought in someone who was more experienced and better suited as a 3-4 DE.

he's never played in a 4-3 at the pro level and he's still young. he could excel there in a way that he's never been able to do with the jets. he might not live up to his being drafted 6th overall, but since we aren't the team that did it, that wouldn't matter.

[4Corners]

I don't know why these homos keep calling Brown a bust.

[bleys]

I don't know why these homos keep calling Brown a bust.

I tried explaining this in another thread..

fans are like children. they have no fuging clue how to decipher football.