Worthy > Still ?

[Leeroy Jenkins PhD]

Just curious as to what the bored thinks of these two DT prospects. I have thought all along that Worthy was a better player. But, even the experts seem to disagree. What do you guys think?

[pantherj]

Oh god Worthy is way better, I don't think it's close.

[Panthro]

i could flip a coin

[Lout]

I think Worthy is better, but I don't think we go DT at all in this entire draft. Worthy would be a slight upgrade over what we have now, but not as much of an upgrade as if we drafted someone like Janoris Jenkins or Vinny Curry. We are so deep at DT, I don't think we even sniff at the position. I firmly believed that if we did not take a DT in the 1st round, we would not take one the whole draft, and I still believe that.

[pantherj]

Worthy can hold a double sort of like Fua could back in college, and he can get a push into the pocket, but damned if he can run much at all. God is he slow out in the open, but he doesn't have to run fast because he's a beast in the trenches when he's not worn down.

Still is not in the same class as Worthy imo. Still's pass rush is a joke, and he's only maybe a little better than average against the run. If we draft Still I might get ill.

[Actionman0z]

DT/DE is out I think.

[JawnyBlaze]

I like Still better than Worthy.

Still's pass rush is a joke?? Did you even watch him play at all? He's got the quickest first step off the snap of any DT in this class. His pass rush is better than Cox's.

[pantherj]

I like Still better than Worthy.

Still's pass rush is a joke?? Did you even watch him play at all? He's got the quickest first step off the snap of any DT in this class. His pass rush is better than Cox's.

I watched all the videos available.

Still's pass rush is so much worse than Cox's that I'm shocked you said that. From my perspective you're coming out of left field.

[JawnyBlaze]

eh, different people see different things.

[pantherj]

We all have our favorties in this draft. I'm just hoping Rivera get's exactly who he wants. No more "we didn't have who we needed on defense" talk. Go get who you want Rivera.

[La Pantera]

Worthy....

[d-run]

Here is Josh Norris' eval on both. Works for rotoworld and not a big fan of Worthy:

Still-

Not going to be successful if caught off guard at the snap but still keeps lower half anchor. Very good usable strength , rips and extends arms/punches to jolt OL. Fantastic arm over swim at the snap vs overextending OL. Predominantly plays 3DT, 5T every so often, handful of NT. Can't deny that he gets out of his stance high, but consistently forces OL even higher with outstanding strength to lock out and extend while gaining backfield vision and reacting appropriately. Not the quickest short steps when twisting inside, not a bender. Once he gets OL moving backwards he continues to drive, pounds feet. The vision he gets with arms extended is fantastic, a very overlooked skill, very consistent in timing release/shed at tackle point. Straight line rusher, but a very good one at that, can adjust/react in the backfield but mostly swarms/overpowers target when tackling. Technical/active/strong hands, usually uses on first contact and looks to shed early in pass rush situations. First step after releasing from OL takes up a lot of ground. Obviously not perfect, can give up ground before he makes it up, especially if hands are low and shoulder is given up. Even if he doesn't make the tackle he consistently penetrates upfield, disrupter, this is when he's taken to the ground mostly, when driving one angle aggressively. Not going to do much in terms of penetrating if initial momentum is stopped unless he uses OL momentum against him with swim over to release. If swim move isn't successful he winds up high, much more difficult to reset after that. Uses reach well when deep in pocket, slows down RB or looks to swat at QB. At times he doesn't just disrupt plays, he disrupts entire series. I think his problems start when he can't extend arms, already high with no chance to leverage, tough to create when close to OL. Can win immediately off the snap or with persistence with arms extended. May not give full effort on every snap, this year motor was much higher, tends to not chase plays past the second level. Uses a dip vs over extending/high blockers, quite effective but used soporifically. Really bursts through gaps frequently when OL is pulling. Had a great game vs Bama. There are times where he just cannot be stopped, most dominant DT in the country for most of the season.

Worthy-

If he doesn't time and win off the snap he is not very useful. Stays latched on in OL grasp too often, needs to extend. Even when trying to gain hand control, thats when he guts pushed back the most. Has difficulty resetting after upfield momentum is stopped. Fights off blocks with weaker hands and close to his body. Can't function like normal DT, doesn't win normal 1on1 matchups past snap. Doesn't stay strong on block, gets turned, exposes weaker areas. He does flash active hands and persistence, full motor, but those are scarce. Lacks change of direction and reaction quickness in the backfield. When snap is timed, his intial burst to shoot the gap can be excellent, but also leads to offsides on hard counts. Enveloping tackler, wraps up.

Has Worthy as the #10 DT in the draft, Still #1

[d-run]

Here is another eval. This is from Dan Brugler who works for CBS sports:

Still (no. 5 DT)

STRENGTHS: Still has a large filled-out frame with a strong trunk and very good measureables – wide base and good length. He moves well for his size with very impressive athleticism, smooth movement skills and quick pursuit speed. Still is quick off the LOS with good initial burst to shoot gaps and create pressure – explosive player. He is a coordinated rusher and looks fluid in space with agile footwork and plus range. Still has a powerful upper body to toss aside blockers with strong, active hands to secure tackles and shed blocks. He attracts multiple blockers and is still able to make plays against double and triple teams. Still can be a load to handle and raging bull off the snap at times, showing toughness and scheme versatility. He was very productive for an interior player, recording 27.0 tfl and 8.5 sacks the past two seasons as a starter, earning Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year honors as a senior.

WEAKNESSES: Still will pop upright and lose leverage off the snap, getting pushed backwards and making it too easy for blockers – gets himself in trouble with inconsistent pad level and needs to stay low to the ground against the run. He needs to improve his hand placement and will allow himself to be controlled too easily by single blockers at times. Still has inconsistent awareness and doesn’t always accurately locate. He ends up on the ground too much and needs to stay balanced through contact more consistently. Still tends to rely on his natural ability and forget fundamentals. He is an inconsistent finisher who doesn’t show full effort on every play – streaky consistency and will disappear at times. Still is a known underachiever who appears to lose interest after initially stopped – does he love the game of football enough to put in the work off the field? He has some long-term durability concerns after two separate injuries robbed him of his 2007 (torn right ACL) and 2008 seasons (broken left ankle).

OVERALL: Still, who is the cousin of former NFL defensive standouts Art Still and Levon Kirkland, definitely looks the part with a similar frame and athletic skill-set as Detroit Lions DT Ndamukong Suh, but doesn’t have nearly the same mean streak or aggressive strength. He is a hot/cold performer with streaky passion – flashes, but isn’t as dominant as he should be. Still is a gifted athlete for his size and can be an unstoppable force when firing on all cylinders, but underachieves too much and needs to stay motivated to play to the level he’s capable of – a first round caliber player who will probably be overdrafted based on potential and the high ceiling of his ability, but how bad does he want it?

Worthy (no. 8 DT)

STRENGTHS: Worthy has a naturally wide body and looks the part with good bulk throughout his frame. He has a strong upper body with very good swim and other arm moves to beat initial blocker – uses effective rush technique to blow up the backfield. Worthy bursts off the snap and can get past the LOS before the blocker is even out of his stance. He shows natural explosion with very good quickness, timing the snap count to penetrate. Worthy has strong, long arms and does a nice job getting his hands up in passing lanes and on FGs and extra points – 80” wingspan. He has raw power to bull rush blockers and has an active playing style, making it tough for him to control. Worthy is versatile, seeing time at both three- and five-technique in college. He built a solid résumé with 38 career starts the past three seasons, collecting 27.5 tfl and 12.0 sacks.

WEAKNESSES: Worthy will play too tall and knocked backwards off the snap, struggling with leverage and getting too upright in his stance – sloppy technique. He needs to do a better job disengaging at the POA to make plays at the LOS. Worthy needs to be more aggressive with his hands and lacks the raw strength to toss aside blockers. He has too many bad habits, lowering his head into contact and losing ball location. Worthy needs to finish in space when he’s in reach of the ballcarrier. He had too many offsides penalties and needs to consistently use accurate snap anticipation. Worthy looks disinterested at times and lacks the consistent motor NFL teams seek – not a passion player and disappears for stretches. He left the field on obvious passing downs a lot in college and needs to play full-go when he’s on the field – doesn’t show same intensity on every snap.

OVERALL: Worthy wasn’t highly regarded out of the prep ranks, but worked hard to get on the field and make his mark, becoming the first All-American DT at Michigan State in 40 years. He is a first step player, struggling to get off blocks and win at the POA if he doesn’t get a quick start and needs to show better leverage to win against single blockers – inconsistent leverage and fundamentals are frustrating. Worthy has explosive get-off burst and is constantly the first defender to move off the ball, but this also leads to offsides penalties, relying on snap anticipation to be effective – talented off the snap, but isn’t the dominant player he’s made out to be and has a “buyer beware” tag because of his limitations if he doesn’t win off the snap.

Both consider Thompson, Reyes, Mike Martin better than Worthy. Brugler has Reyes ahead of Still.

[Guest Bwood]

Yeah I'd almost put Kendall Reyes ahead of either of them.

Both very similar players, I think Still will make a better pro. Still has the injury problems and Worthy has the consistency problems. Pick your poison.