Panthro's "Hollow suit" theory date back to 02?

[teeray]

Hearing the truth really gets people's defense mechanisms all riled up...cry babies who need to grow up? Seriously you as a fan are part of the problem. You accept mediocrity in your life and have no issue with perpetuating that mentality across all facets of your mediocre existence.

There is nothing in our history that proves we are going to be ok. We have 4 winning seasons. God forbid we try to examine why.

You know, you can say we have had only 4 winning seasons, and that is true.

But we have also only had 4 seasons where we have had a record worse than 7-9.

With the exception 2011, every year we have finished below 7-9 we have replaced the coach.

14 of the 18 seasons of our existence we have been just 2 or 3 games away from the playoffs or in the playoffs.

Now I don't want to insinuate that we have been the model of success, but we are a far cry from a model of abject failure.

And as I mentioned earlier, if it weren't for a couple of injuries to Jake Delhomme we probably would have had even more winning seasons under Fox. But people act like the Fox era didn't even happen, or paint it wit a broad brush of failure, which isn't true.

[SCP]

Proof to back what up?

The fact that I owned PSLs and missed fewer than 8 games during the 17 seasons I attended in Charlotte and I know what I see?

The fact that fewer and fewer seat owners whom I had grown accustomed to sitting with up until the 2008 post-season now attend games at all?

The fact that most of the people who did arrive to sit in the seats surrounding mine were different every week and explained to me they had purchased tickets on the corner outside the stadium?

The fact that more and more opposing teams' fans are now attending games? The fact that you can go to a game between the Bucs and Panthers and see plenty of Pittsburgh and Dallas jerseys?

The proof is simply opening your eyes at any Panthers home game and looking around.

Exactly. People that don't go to games can't see it but its getting really bad.

[panthers55]

I would have to agree with most of what Panthro said. JR isn't going to sacrifice profits for winning, and any smart owner would do the same. If you don't make money you lose your profit and you go out of business. DUH....................

Does he spend up to the cap in order to try and win? Other than in 2010 he did. Did he hire people to watch the football side including Morrison when he wanted more control over individual moves? Sure.

I guess I am not understanding the complaint. Other than if you said he spent too much for the results we got on the field, I don't see where he has done much wrong other than the whole lockout debacle. And I think almost anyone would agree that we have not gotten what we should have, for the money we spent. There are lots of teams in that boat. But that doesn't make him a bad owner, just not one that has figured out to win consistently with the guys he has hired as coaches and players.

[teeray]

People act like an owner just rolls out of bed and decides "I am going to make my team a winner".

If it were that easy every team would be winners.

[MadHatter]

I would have to agree with most of what Panthro said. JR isn't going to sacrifice profits for winning, and any smart owner would do the same. If you don't make money you lose your profit and you go out of business. DUH....................

Does he spend up to the cap in order to try and win? Other than in 2010 he did. Did he hire people to watch the football side including Morrison when he wanted more control over individual moves? Sure.

I guess I am not understanding the complaint. Other than if you said he spent too much for the results we got on the field, I don't see where he has done much wrong other than the whole lockout debacle. And I think almost anyone would agree that we have not gotten what we should have, for the money we spent. There are lots of teams in that boat. But that doesn't make him a bad owner, just not one that has figured out to win consistently with the guys he has hired as coaches and players.

You are spot on.

Other than the season threatened by the lock out, the Panthers have spent at the very top of the salary cap EVERY year.

He allowed Hurney to spend unwisely and make poor personnel decisions. But, he has been willing to spend as much as allowed to try and build this team.

[rayzor]

conspiracy nuts = good comedy

thanks.

[Cyberjag]

<SNIP>

He allowed Hurney to spend unwisely and make poor personnel decisions. But, he has been willing to spend as much as allowed to try and build this team.

I don't think anyone here believes that JR is a hands-off owner. I think that the fear among a lot of people is that JR didn't so much allow Hurney to write those contracts as he directed him to.

Personally, I think Hurney wrote the contracts, believing his skill at manipulating the cap would allow him to negotiate the problems they've created for this year and next. And I think that JR approved them. I don't know how much JR will direct Gettleman's hand, but I hope he steps back a little and gives him a chance to shape the team he wants.

[panthers55]

I don't think anyone here believes that JR is a hands-off owner. I think that the fear among a lot of people is that JR didn't so much allow Hurney to write those contracts as he directed him to.

Personally, I think Hurney wrote the contracts, believing his skill at manipulating the cap would allow him to negotiate the problems they've created for this year and next. And I think that JR approved them. I don't know how much JR will direct Gettleman's hand, but I hope he steps back a little and gives him a chance to shape the team he wants.

JR could be one of the owners who gets into all the details but I doubt he does. He strikes me as someone who controls the big picture and lets the GM manage the details. I definitely could see him telling Hurney how much money he is going to spend in cash each year and the budget he is going to enforce. I doubt he cares about the cap as long as we are competitive and put a good product on the field. He knows that winning fills seats and sells merchandise/food and increases the value of the franchise. He also knows he has to make money for the franchise and is accountable to the investors. He is trying to balance things and put the best product on the team. When will he spend additional bucks to try and get us to the superbowl? How about the season after we actually make the playoffs.

I really don't think Richardson wants to micromanage the details. I think he wants to win as bad as the next guy and if he thinks that Gettleman can do it, he will give him all the distance he wants. And Richardson has been doing this long enough not to overreact or change his philosophy which is bringing in the people he believes can do the job not do it himself. Still, he surely thinks he should get the last word and as the owner that is his job. I don't see the problem.

[DaCityKats]

Do you have any proof to back that up? If anything we are becoming one the most popular underdogs in the league. Cam simply being here has given a boost to the fan base.

seems like the panthers been the underdog since 05.how long can you use that card?i can tell by watching the games on tv and how empty the stands are.

[frash.exe]

I'd like to think that JR isn't involved in transactions, but I can't help but to picture him on the phone urging his GM to make some boneheaded contract extensions like we've seen in the past few years

[Montsta]

You could argue....good teams don't have losing seasons bc of an injury to one stud player. Injury isn't something exclusive to us....all teams deal with it.

Manning goes down, the Colts go from perennial 12 win team to worst in the league. poo happens.

[Montsta]

People keep bitching about these huge contracts given out, but conveniently forget that most of them were lauded at the time they were handed out. I think the contract to Godfrey was the only one I recall people being riled up over. A few for d will, but certainly it was only a small handful of people that were pissed about the Beason, Kalil, Anderson, or Johnson contracts. At the time they were no bad. Hindsight is 20/20.

[Kurb]

I agree (i have to for my sanity) with the points CyberJag and P55 made.

I would even go so far as to say that Hurney was so desperate to save his job he signed players JR had mentioned as "good guys" and the types he hopes to attract to the Panthers.

We will see what is really going down over the next 18ish months, with how contracts are repaired, dolled out, and who said events happen to.

[SmashNDash]

The main problem was in the "uncapped" year, we had a payroll of around 80 million. If we had resigned these "good guys" that year, and front loaded some of their contract into that year(not to the extent Dallas and Washington did obviously), up to the "recognized but nonexistant cap", then we would probably have at least 10-15 million more room this year.