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*Deep breath* Any lawyers here?

Awesomeness!!

By Awesomeness!!,
in Huddle Lounge

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Awesomeness!! Newbie

Awesomeness!!

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Posted

I'll be a junior next semester (hot damn) and I guess now would be a good time to start my law school applications. My school had a prelaw program but I feel like its geared toward getting people to stay in Arizona and ideally i want to move back to North Carolina and practice there. Any advice as far as studying for the LSAT, and things of that nature would be appreciated.

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TruthVsComfort Rookie

TruthVsComfort

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For LSAT preparation, I recommend these books as a foundation:

 

http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/publications/

 

And then just practice on old exams until you are scoring where you want to be:

 

http://www.amazon.com/More-Actual-Official-LSAT-Preptests/dp/0942639804/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1387495743&sr=1-6&keywords=10+lsat+tests

 

You are at a disadvantage as a nonresident of NC as far as getting into UNC School of Law (but don't let it discourage you from applying - you just probably need to be at or above their 75th percentile lsat). You will have to look into what the scores are now to get into the NC law schools, but when I entered in 2010, scoring at the 90th percentile or higher on the LSAT like I did gave you a great shot at UNC or Wake Forest (when combined with a 3.5+ gpa).

 

Hope this helps.

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neverlosethefeeling Apprentice

neverlosethefeeling

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LSAT score and GPA are by and large the two best predictors of your chances of admittance to any given institution.

Public universities give preference to state residents because they want those state funds to be going towards educating students who plan to practice in the region. Private institutions don't care quite as much but they're goddamn expensive.

Also, pay attention to schools' placement statistics. They're widely available. If you can't go to a t1 law school and you're having to pay for it yourself (no scholarship, grants, etc.) I wouldn't do it. Job prospects for the lower tier law schools are not great. Fewer OCIs, fewer recruiting opportunities and much lower starting salaries. If you're funding your education yourself, unless you're going into the public sector (give 10 years in NC and they'll forgive student loan debt) then you need to be certain you want to study law to justify the cost vs your ability to repay those costs.

 

Are you by chance a URM (underrepresented minority)? If so, that helps you out tremendously.

 

I'd plan to take the LSAT early--June would prob be a good target if you start studying now. If you do well, you'll have a solid score to submit an early decision application to your top school. If you don't, there's still an October and December administration that you can use to improve that score but I would NOT recommend taking it later than October of the year you're completing the application cycle for. There are many great online resources (top-law-schools.com is one) that you should read. There are in-depth profiles of every law school, some dean interviews and forums that are contributed to by many knowledgeable people. You'll find some great LSAT advice on there as well as people that are willing to look over your personal statement, another crucial component of the application. If absolutely nothing else, you'll be in the company of many people going through the same thing as you and that will be able to relate when you're burnt out from studying, waiting for your LSAT scores or for admissions decisions. Your other friends won't understand.

 

Bottom line: start studying for the LSAT yesterday. And dedicate some serious time to it. It's a difficult but beatable test. There are many, many people that score 179+ every year. The Logic Games sections are the easiest to master, IMO. There are strategies to solving the specific problem types and practice makes perfect with those.

 

If you're interested, I have over 36 old LSAT tests as .pdfs and the Powerscore LG and LR bibles as .pdfs as well. Like TvC recommended above, the powerscore bibles are the gold standard of LSAT prep texts. I could prob set up a drop box and pass them along to you.

 

Only other advice would be to target some current professors that you want to write your letters of recommendation. You'll be asked to waive your rights to view the letters so adcoms know they're unbiased, so you want to be sure these are people that know you, your abilities and motivations well and you're confident will write you a positive letter. They don't have to be big names because those don't carry as much weight as people think. If you can't think of 3 people, the good news is you still have some time to cultivate those relationships.

 

I know that was a LOT of rambling but I just had a major flashback to the time I was going thru the application cycle. Good luck!

 

 

Edit: It's good to be realistic about employment opportunities after you graduate, even though you're looking at ~5 years from now. I live in DC, where everyone and their mother is a lawyer. You'd be SHOCKED at the number of attorneys that are forced to take part-time or temp work doing document review and discovery locked in a room for 14hrs a day. It's not glamorous but it's the nature of the legal market right now. Many, many people chose to ride out the recession by going back to school and that's created an influx of new grads and there are too few positions for them to occupy.

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Awesomeness!! Newbie

Awesomeness!!

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LSAT score and GPA are by and large the two best predictors of your chances of admittance to any given institution.

Public universities give preference to state residents because they want those state funds to be going towards educating students who plan to practice in the region. Private institutions don't care quite as much but they're goddamn expensive.

Also, pay attention to schools' placement statistics. They're widely available. If you can't go to a t1 law school and you're having to pay for it yourself (no scholarship, grants, etc.) I wouldn't do it. Job prospects for the lower tier law schools are not great. Fewer OCIs, fewer recruiting opportunities and much lower starting salaries. If you're funding your education yourself, unless you're going into the public sector (give 10 years in NC and they'll forgive student loan debt) then you need to be certain you want to study law to justify the cost vs your ability to repay those costs.

Are you by chance a URM (underrepresented minority)? If so, that helps you out tremendously.

I'd plan to take the LSAT early--June would prob be a good target if you start studying now. If you do well, you'll have a solid score to submit an early decision application to your top school. If you don't, there's still an October and December administration that you can use to improve that score but I would NOT recommend taking it later than October of the year you're completing the application cycle for. There are many great online resources (top-law-schools.com is one) that you should read. There are in-depth profiles of every law school, some dean interviews and forums that are contributed to by many knowledgeable people. You'll find some great LSAT advice on there as well as people that are willing to look over your personal statement, another crucial component of the application. If absolutely nothing else, you'll be in the company of many people going through the same thing as you and that will be able to relate when you're burnt out from studying, waiting for your LSAT scores or for admissions decisions. Your other friends won't understand.

Bottom line: start studying for the LSAT yesterday. And dedicate some serious time to it. It's a difficult but beatable test. There are many, many people that score 179+ every year. The Logic Games sections are the easiest to master, IMO. There are strategies to solving the specific problem types and practice makes perfect with those.

If you're interested, I have over 36 old LSAT tests as .pdfs and the Powerscore LG and LR bibles as .pdfs as well. Like TvC recommended above, the powerscore bibles are the gold standard of LSAT prep texts. I could prob set up a drop box and pass them along to you.

Only other advice would be to target some current professors that you want to write your letters of recommendation. You'll be asked to waive your rights to view the letters so adcoms know they're unbiased, so you want to be sure these are people that know you, your abilities and motivations well and you're confident will write you a positive letter. They don't have to be big names because those don't carry as much weight as people think. If you can't think of 3 people, the good news is you still have some time to cultivate those relationships.

I know that was a LOT of rambling but I just had a major flashback to the time I was going thru the application cycle. Good luck!

Edit: It's good to be realistic about employment opportunities post bar, even though you're looking at ~5 years from now. I live in DC, where everyone and their mother is a lawyer. You'd be SHOCKED at the number of attorneys that are forced to take part-time or temp work doing document review and discovery locked in a room for 14hrs a day. It's not glamorous but it's the nature of the legal market right now. Many, many people chose to ride out the recession by going back to school and that's created an influx of new grads and there are too few positions for them to occupy.

Thanks dude, a ton of info here. I'm basically a law forum junkie. My history on my phone and computer says it all. Just curious, how many schools did you apply to?

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neverlosethefeeling Apprentice

neverlosethefeeling

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Thanks dude, a ton of info here. I'm basically a law forum junkie. My history on my phone and computer says it all. Just curious, how many schools did you apply to?

 

That's good to hear. If you already know about some of those resources and are keeping up with them you'll be better prepared to deal with all of the things that will come between now and when you matriculate.

 

I only applied to 6. Chicago, UVA, UT, Duke, UNC, Wake

 

The way I did it is not a way I would recommend for anybody else. For me, if I couldn't get into a top school, I didn't want to go. Wake and UNC were as low on the rankings as I wanted to go. I think Wake was ~30 and Carolina ~20 and everywhere else was a T14, though I admit I don't know where they are on the lists now. The other barrier for me was lack of fee waivers and as you know (or will soon enough) those applications get expensive, especially if you have to pay for them yourself. The LSAT itself is like $160 (and I took it twice) I think you can send scores to 4 schools for free but then it's $25 a pop for each school after that and then $50-100 application fee for the school itself. Most people will tell you (and you should listen to them) that you should apply to a healthy range. Have a few schools maybe 2-4 that are "reach" schools...schools that you're at least close to the median LSAT and GPA, a few that you're really competitive at and then another couple that are safety schools--places you know you'll get into. I was working part-time at a grocery store at that time and paying for all of it myself and I didn't have the funds to follow that strategy. It could easily cost a grand to apply to 8-10 schools.

 

There are all sorts of other strategies about which school you should use as your early decision school--you can only apply to one because it's binding if they accept you.

 

Once you register with the LSAC, get your transcripts submitted and your first LSAT scores are released, you'll be drowning in recruiting material sent to you via post and e-mail by law schools. Some of them will include application fee waivers. Take advantage of those. I don't want you to go into detail about your financial situation on here, but the other thing to consider is applying for need-based waivers which you can do through LSAC if you qualify. You can also contact law schools directly and flat out ask for one. Results with this method vary but it's worked for people.

 

Again, if you want me to send you any of the study material I have, just shoot me a PM and I'll get it worked out for you. But it seems like you're doing a lot of the right things.

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