I Don't understand the franchise and trade Hardy talk

[Pantherman]

They got a first, two thirds and a seventh for Allen and their sixth I think. But Hardy isn't on the level Allen was when he was tagged and traded. Allen was an absolute animal....

 

Man I would accept an early second right about for him if it came to that. But anything lower then a second would be a waste of time.

[C47]

Man I would accept an early second right about for him if it came to that. But anything lower then a second would be a waste of time.

 

Agree completely.

[RoaringRiot]

When Hardy walks and we get nothing in return, it will be the first time I've ever experienced a total meltdown on the Huddle. I would imagine it's going to feel similar to that earthquake that just rocked my house.

[Pantherman]

All I can say is DG better get a move on. He has to deal with a lot FAs on our list right now. That include Hardy. We have just a little over 3 weeks left before FA starts. DG is working on borrowed time right now. The guy needs to get his act together work fast. I'm sure we will hear something from the Panthers within the next few weeks hopefully. But time is short. Some much to do and so little time to do it in.

[Woodie]

not 100% confirmed, but incredibly likely...a lot depends on who we pick up in FA.

 

the formula the NFL uses is a secret, but they take three things into consideration in addition to overall net gain/loss of FA players (which isn't that big of a deal because they are more interested in the value of FAs gained or lost).

 

1) salary with the new team

2) playing time with the new team

3) post season honors with the new team

 

the biggest factor is salary.

 

i seriously doubt that there is anyone that we are going to sign who will make near the amount that hardy will make with a new team. it's hard to imagine us not getting a third round comp. pick for losing him.

 

Actually, it's far from likely.  What is more likely is that we will use the money we save on not signing Hardy to re-sign some our own as well as bring in some decent FA's at not inconsequential prices.  My expectation is that if we let Hardy go we will bring in a starter at either OT or CB, and neither would be cheap.  And that would minimize the overall "loss/gain" measure they use to assign comp picks.  So if we lose Hardy, my guess is that we might end op with a 4th or 5th round pick and maybe one or two later round picks (for our overall losses, obviously).

 

So letting him go would allow us to keep our own FA's we want to re-sign along with bringing in some key FA's to fill need positions, which is not necessarily a bad thing.  But I think people are making a mistake if they are assuming we will simply be handed a 3rd round pick for losing him.  But even if we do get a 3rd for him, it's a late 3rd, which is essentially an early 4th...not a spot you can expect to get an impact player. 

[Woodie]

As for whether we can get anything in a tag and trade scenario, most likely we could.  Probably not a 1st, but a second is a legitimate possibility.  Pass rushing DE's are in high demand, and ones that can also play the run as well as Hardy does, along with being able to shift inside are an extremely rare commodity.  Hardy is a difference maker at DE, and teams are willing to pay for difference makers.  The issue is if there is a team out there that has the cap space, a need at DE, and feels they are close (whether we fans think they are or not).  Because that is the team that could be a realistic possibility, but if that team doesn't exist, then the likelihood of a trade goes way down.

 

And people saying that Hardy would have to agree to any team we want to trade with need to realize that this is no different than any other FA situation, with the exception that we hold and can trade his rights.  All it means is that there is an extra level of negotiation before he can move to another team.  But yes, he would have to agree to go to that team...which is no different than any other FA.  And if he isn't willing to go to a team, then we don't negotiate compensation with them.  Simply put, we can't dictate where he goes, but on the other hand, if he wants a monster long-term contract, he also needs to work with us to try and find a suitable match...it really is a symbiotic arrangement (that is if both the team and Hardy agree that a long-term deal at a salary he finds acceptable is not likely to happen with the Panthers).    

 

   

[Woodie]

Also...

 

Most tagged players wait to sign the tender in hopes of signing a long-term deal for more overall money and security.  They really don't want to play under the tag and risk losing their big payday due to injury or decline in performance.  And Hardy's stock will probably never be higher than it is right now.  He's coming off a pro-bowl season with huge numbers, and he is just coming into his prime.  Not to mention that he is THE glamour defensive player in this year's FA crop.  So I have no doubt that he will want to capitalize now rather than wait.

 

However, there is risk if we tag him.  He could royally screw us (if our intent is to trade him) by quickly signing the tender, thus locking his salary up for the season.  I'm not sure what the exact waiting period is before teams can trade players on the franchise tag (or if they even can), but I do know it's not right away.  Though I think the possibility of that happening is really low. 

[Woodie]

.

I would normally agree but hardy has publicly said he will take the tag and be happy with it...

But he never said he would jump all over it before the ink even dries.  I don't think there is a chance in hell that he would give up the likelihood of a monster long-term contract just to lock himself into a one year deal.  Besides, that was just talk, and his comments have been all over the place so I wouldn't take any of them too seriously...except to see that he wants a big payday.  Even so, at most I think it was just his way of saying that the tag amount is in the range of what he expects as a yearly average. 

[TheRed]

All I can say is DG better get a move on. He has to deal with a lot FAs on our list right now. That include Hardy. We have just a little over 3 weeks left before FA starts. DG is working on borrowed time right now. The guy needs to get his act together work fast. I'm sure we will hear something from the Panthers within the next few weeks hopefully. But time is short. Some much to do and so little time to do it in.

 

Do you think Gettleman is just sitting around eating twinkies, and binge watching the Soprano's all day or something? Just because we are not getting our fill of Panthers related news right now does not mean that he isn't out there working, give the guy a little credit, he has a plan.

[rayzor]

Actually, it's far from likely.  What is more likely is that we will use the money we save on not signing Hardy to re-sign some our own as well as bring in some decent FA's at not inconsequential prices.  My expectation is that if we let Hardy go we will bring in a starter at either OT or CB, and neither would be cheap.  And that would minimize the overall "loss/gain" measure they use to assign comp picks.  So if we lose Hardy, my guess is that we might end op with a 4th or 5th round pick and maybe one or two later round picks (for our overall losses, obviously).

 

So letting him go would allow us to keep our own FA's we want to re-sign along with bringing in some key FA's to fill need positions, which is not necessarily a bad thing.  But I think people are making a mistake if they are assuming we will simply be handed a 3rd round pick for losing him.  But even if we do get a 3rd for him, it's a late 3rd, which is essentially an early 4th...not a spot you can expect to get an impact player. 

i hope that the money gies to that and that they are really good because then that essentially means that we exchanged one great player for two really good ones at areas that we need help at. it's a win/win in my book and i'd rather have two solid vets rather than some untested and unknown commodity from even in the second round. 

 

the third round comp is a worst case scenario in my mind. if we don't do anything with that saved cal space but sign a couple average vets wanting to prove themselves and extend cam, then we can expect a third round comp. 

 

hardy could end up making more than charles johnson did on his big deal. this could be one of the biggest contracts handed toa defensive player ever. if it is, i fully expect to see at the very least a 4th despite what we do.

[Kevin Greene]

An interesting point being.

Just what would Hardy bring on the open market as a complete Free Agent?

[Woodie]

i hope that the money gies to that and that they are really good because then that essentially means that we exchanged one great player for two really good ones at areas that we need help at. it's a win/win in my book and i'd rather have two solid vets rather than some untested and unknown commodity from even in the second round. 

 

the third round comp is a worst case scenario in my mind. if we don't do anything with that saved cal space but sign a couple average vets wanting to prove themselves and extend cam, then we can expect a third round comp. 

 

hardy could end up making more than charles johnson did on his big deal. this could be one of the biggest contracts handed toa defensive player ever. if it is, i fully expect to see at the very least a 4th despite what we do.

Yeah, if we don't do anything but bring in a couple of low-mid level vets and extend our own guys we would probably get a 3rd.  But since the 3rd is basically a high 4th round pick next year, I would rather try to get something a little better in this years draft.  I don't believe we could get a first, but a second is possible, and at worst, someone would almost certainly be willing to pony up a 3rd and some change for an impact DE like Hardy.       

 

However, I really think if we don't keep Hardy that Gettleman will use the money to bring in either a starting level corner or OT so we can then fill our two other pressing needs with our 1st and 2nd round picks.  And while that would probably make our team better as a whole, it would almost certainly cost us a round or two with his compensatory pick.     

[Woodie]

An interesting point being.

Just what would Hardy bring on the open market as a complete Free Agent?

Probably in the CJ range.

[csx]

so u think GMan is gonna let Hardy just walk, for nothing?

Yes. He is a free agent. Free agents sign with other teams every season. Thats what free agency is about. Tags are designed kepp them but at a hefty price. We arent in a position to eat that hefty price. You would have to find a very desperate sucker to pay his salary AND give you a high draft pick since he is not elite. That is the situation in a nutshell.