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You may be interested to know that the average depth of separation is dependent upon the type of route run. Though go-routes are the most type of route run, they also produce the least amount of separation (and, of course, completions). "The average pass catcher runs a go route on nearly a quarter of all routes (22.3%), the highest percentage of any route type in our data. However, those routes are targeted roughly 1 out of 10 times (10.8 percent), the lowest target rate of any route. The WR screen is the least-run route (3.4%), and it's the only route where the average target is behind the line of scrimmage. But it's also targeted at the highest rate (40.7%) and early in the play (1.6 seconds average time to throw). The most targeted routes outside of the WR Screen? The out (27.8%) and slant (25.2%) routes are the next most popular across the league." "The most valuable routes by expected points added per target were the post (+0.48) and corner (+0.43) routes. The go route (+0.19) ranked seventh on the list of 10 route types. The go route (+0.19) ranked seventh on the list of 10 route types. One possible reason for this: It's harder to separate on go routes, which put the player on a straight path, than on posts or corners, which ask the player to make a cut. Targeted pass catchers on posts and corners average 2.4 yards and 2.3 yards of separation from the nearest defender, respectively, while pass catchers targeted on go routes average just 1.8 yards of separation." https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-intro-to-new-route-recognition-model#:~:text=Targeted pass catchers on posts,) and slant (+0.26). I would expect that Thielen would have an easier time catching the ball based that he runs the routes where it's easier to get open. Tet? Yet to be seen, but we may be better served getting him on some slants and crossers also. In general, receivers are going to average a lower completion percentage and yards of separation on certain types of routes than others, that's why we shouldn't necessarily be taking stats, even advanced ones, at face value, as there are dynamics that most aren't even thinking about. In terms of Tet, he's bigger and somewhat slower than a smaller dude, so you'd expect him not to have as much separation on go-routes, but his catch radius is massive and his hands are awesome. Hitting him in stride will probably be killer, but of course QBs are less accurate on go-routes according to the stats. Depending upon Tet's route versatility and how he is used, we could have a unicorn though. He's relatively fast, has great hands and gets YAC (and on an off note, if X can hold on to the ball, he's dangerous as well because he already has shown some separation ability).

What’s Horns speed??

Most elite WRs aren't necessarily burners. Not a lot of elite WRs in the modern era were 4.3 guys. If anything, sometimes it seems like the super fast guys use their speed as a crutch and it hampers their development in the intricacies of route running.

People saying the same thing 100 ways to avoid work.

I hope you are right. Fwiw, I sometimes think that when assessing WR's, fans and occasionally coaching staffs/scouts, get caught up to much in speed. Speed is great and certainly helps. But everyone involved in the passing game is fast. With a guy like Thielen, and hopefully Tet, they only need a couple of feet to be considered open.

He doesn't have to be a vet to hold information. His route running is still better than average.

idk if this would make sense for the Jags. BTJ is their #1, they traded up for Travis Hunter, and Dyami Brown is on a 1yr deal after showing promise in Washington (as well as Jags training camp). Coker would likely compete with Joshua Cephus for WR4. Doesn't seem like a very good transaction for them.

Basically it's 11 pages because two people can't accept this and have concluded that means that everyone else is stupid.

Moton has been our best player during the dark years but I agree with the general opinion here that whether he stays or goes is likely up to him and how much money he wants. For me personally, if I had already made over 100 million and wanted to finish my career here than I would accept the teams offer and finish my career here. I know not many people think that way and will get all offended over a few million but really, how much does a person need if you're happy?

That's EXACTLY what he said. Almost verbatim.

I was going to say how I can't believe that this thread has 11 pages lol He thinks it's funnier than it is. I got the play on words and it's cute if you use it once but repeating it over and over takes that away and feels like he's trying to be insulting.

I thought the same thing. Somehow i missed this thread and the whole idea of trading an up and coming young WR for a LB with an expiring contract is silly.

I think Coker's value is only so high to the Panthers. He had good production for a udfa and he has some favorable advanced stats, but the reality is he had limited production. I love the guy and personally think at worst He's very solid depth... but... He's not getting traded straight up for a starter right now. As an aside... What's with this cokehead stuff?

He's been an A+ Panther through the darkest years, one of Gettleman's finest picks.

I used to mock turf toe. Like dude, it's a TOE. Man up and GTFO over it. Yeah, get a bad case of turf toe and report back. You don't realize how absolutely vital your big toe is until it's useless and causing you agony.

Why does this have 11 pages?

I can think of 4 or 5 teams that would probably be willing to part with a first rounder for the hope of a franchise QB.

Damn that's rough, but I believe you. We had a running back from North Carolina back in the late 90s. Rushed for over 2000 yards his senior season. Never saw the field in college because of turf toe. Like for 4 years.

It literally took me years to fully get over turf toe. Bring misdiagnosed as gout when I'm telling the doctor it's 100% an injury didn't help. I should've just left that office and bought a walking boot but just limped through it and now I also have knee issues on that leg from walking for months rolling my weight to the outside of my foot away from the big toe.

Man I hope Mike Jackson doesn't have turf toe. That ish will linger forever. And hammy for Renfrow? Really need to keep an eye on that.

4 if you count Zavala, which seems a little more serious. Last I heard, he's week to week but expected back for regular season.

The crazy part is that as good as that catch was, if it was T-Mac, it wouldn't even be in his Top 5 catches over his last 2 seasons, more than likely would crack the Top 10, but even that might not be a guarantee. And I mean that as no slight to Thielen, I love having him as a Panther. But just saying, get used to a number of eye popping grabs by T-Mac every year, it's just what he does, those hands are vice grips covered with glue.

Honestly if a team was offering us a 1st for Bryce right now I do that deal in a damn heartbeat. Ride it out with Dalton or whoever while we pseudo-tank and continue to let time build the D, etc. and grab a QB high in the 1st round next year. Hopefully Bryce proves me wrong but I'm just so far from sold on his future here, even with the rebound last year. But I don't think any team would offer us a 1st right now.

could we use a Devin Lloyd type? probably. does Coker really have anything to do with that type hypothetical? I don't see. I think most teams generally have their own version of Coker (which doesn't make him relevant in terms of player acquisition IMO.