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Many knew the Panthers would fight in that game because the Packers, in general, have devolved into perpetual underachievers. The Bills game came after their bye where they were struggling in the run game and had a lot of dudes coming back off of suspension and injury. It was a get right game for them. The Packers just aren’t that great.

Glass houses and all. I find the people who are the most adamant about this type of thing tend to have the most to hide. Careful buddy.

Also, wanted to point out, all 3 of the Pivot guys I respect and appreciate tremendously. I know RC only had 1 pro bowl, but I loved his game. He was tough as nails and played with a ton of heart and grit. He was trying to knock people out, but was also super cerebral. Fred is obviously a hall of famer and just as tough. Channing made the most of what he had and was hard-nosed as well. And yet, all three of them let Steve slide on a ton of poo in this interview. They actually cowered in several moments and I don’t like that at all. Because for all the things I mentioned in my initial post in this thread, them not trying to reel him back in or hold his feet to the fire on certain bullshit, and feels gross. Yall were all on the same competitive level as athletes, and yet, yall just let him skate on poo like talking about invoking using a gun on someone, laughing off how he essentially ended two teammates’ careers by BULLYING them and then co-signing it, and letting him completely sidestep accountability about his affair. I get it, because apparently he invited you to his home to do the interview, but either talk some real poo or don’t do the interview at all. This was some real softball poo.

This season’s leader, Daniel Jones, is averaging 265.9 yards per game, that would rank 12th in 2015. Even going back to 2020, he would rank 10th in passing yards. So it does appear that passing yards is down, but is that because they aren’t as good? Possibly, but we were spoilt in recent years when we had Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Ryan, Stafford (etc). As crops of QBs go, it was an amazing era to watch and most will end up in the Hall of Fame. I’m not convinced you we could list as many potential Hall of Fame QBs from the current crop. Will it go pass heavy again? I think there’s a good chance that it will, but it will require QBs that can consistently air the ball out in the frequency we saw in the 00s and 10s. I think currently coaches are favouring a more balanced approach, if not favouring a strong running game.

JR loved him and from what I’ve read, Steve viewed him as a father figure. Again, there was talk of him being released after the Bright and Lucas situations from what I recall. I think the only way he survived those was JR. and to further your point he even said in this interview that he skipped offseason workouts his whole career here and told Marty to keep that money from his next deal but he wasn’t coming because she had his own trainer. We NEVER heard any of that during his career. And tbh, Steve always struck me as a guy that picked on people he knew he could take advantage of. Which is another thing I always viewed as a trait most closely associated with sociopaths. And if he thought he couldn’t take someone, he would catch them when they didn’t expect it, like with Lucas. He’s a bully. Period.

Was having trouble with embedding yesterday...

Prepare yourselves for a mid-week novel: I’ve shared before, Steve was my favorite player and I met him at the caravan tour at Ft. Bragg in 05, I believe it was… I had got off work, got dressed and drove on to the base (I’m originally from Fayetteville, born and raised and lived right outside of the city then), waited in a long line out in the sun while the players were under the tent. No lie, the line was probably a solid 100 ft from the tent, and the signings weren’t necessarily quick. It was Rod Smart, Colin Branch, and Steve. There was a 4th player, but I can’t really remember who it was now. Anyway, Rod and Steve were the only ones I really cared about getting autographs from. I was about 21, so still a little green in some ways, but as I said, being from Fayetteville, I was naturally street smart and observant, which in hindsight was part of what made me love Steve as a player - he was an underdog, a guy from a rough environment with a ton of heart and he wore it on his sleeve - I saw him as the NFL version of guys like me in everyday life… guys who had to scrape and scrap just to get considered even with people who had poo given to them. And not to go Al Bundy, but when I played sports, I played the same way. Like a Steve Smith, an Allen Iverson… 100 miles an hour every play. I surprised people with my quickness, my violence, my physicality. I played angry and with reckless abandon. But, I also related because I was never given anything. I always had to fight, and my upbringing was also rough. So, meeting him was more than just a fan interaction for me, it was like a genuine putting a real face to a hero. But, as the old saying goes, never meet your heroes… So, back to it… I get off work, middle of summer, I’m waiting in the hot sun, I finally get right up to the tent and some PR person comes up as I’m the next person up to walk to the table and they ask Steve to come over and do something with some kids for a minute. I step out of the line. I can’t remember if they also asked one of the other guys to do something, so there was only like two players out of the four, so I figured I’d wait. I think he tossed a ball around with the kids for a minute or something, but again, you could tell it was very structured to look a certain way. I’m paying attention to it because I kind of feel like if Steve isn’t at the tent, I don’t even know if I feel like getting in the line again. So after probably like 15-30 more minutes of waiting in the heat, it looks like the PR/media people are telling him he has to go back to the tent. I think he had walked in like a camper or something, comes back out and a security guy is escorting him over to the signing table. And again, at 21, I’m not familiar with how these events work. I assume you can interact or talk with them at anytime your paths may cross, because that’s why they’re here, right? So, I’m like, man, I already waited all this time, and I sat in the line the first go round and they had him leave right as I was coming up, so I’ll just see if I can get him to sign it before he sits down at the table. Mind you, I didn’t bring anything like a scalper or memorabilia guy… I just showed up for the experience. They handed us like a team photo and if you didn’t bring your own stuff, that’s what they signed. So, the security guy is escorting him over to the table, I walk up, and mind you, again, as a street smart kid, I am mindful of my approach. I don’t present myself as a threat, I am very laid back, not pressed at all, and I project myself as a well-meaning, good-intentioned 21 year old kid. I walk up in a way that they see me approaching from diagonally in front of them - no weird, creepy poo… and I say, “hey Steve! I just waited in the line before you had to go off and just missed you. Do I have to wait in line again to have you sign this [the team photo]?” I look him in the eyes. And at this point, I have also observed, Steve is about an inch or two shorter than me, but his forearms are the size of most people’s calves, and his calves the size of most people’s quads. Dude is stocky as hell. At that time, I was sub-10% body fat, about 155 lbs, at 5’10”. I wasn’t into weights then, so again, non-threatening. Steve looks me in my face. I continue to walk alongside of him. We continue to occasionally make eye contact as we’re walking and I’m waiting for an answer. I don’t recall asking again, but am still waiting. His whole body language shifts. He looks up and looks straight through me. If you’ve ever seen someone look at you with ZERO humanity or respect for your life (usually if you were in a dangerous situation), that was exactly how Steve looked at me. I felt I was a threat to him and he was on the defensive. I continued to walk beside them for what was a just a few steps and seconds, again, nothing weird like I didn’t catch a hint or anything, but it felt like an eternity of awkward silence and uncomfortability. It became so unnerving in just that few short seconds, while me and Steve were essentially sizing each other up, the security guy I could tell started feeling the tension. He kept looking at Steve. Then me. Then Steve. Then me again with a “damn, aren’t you gonna fuging answer him or at least acknowledge him?” kind of look. And that was the thing that was so disrespectful, is Steve besides looking like he wanted to murder me, he never said a fuging word. I think after shooting me that look, he essentially just looked away and kept walking. Didn’t say a word. The security guy felt super uncomfortable and kind of stepped between us and was hurriedly and nervously stammering, “uhhh…. Uhhh…. Ye- yea- Uhhh, yeah, man! You got to get in line. Go back and get in line.” I was just like, “Ahh, okay, cool.” Went back in line. At this point, I’m replaying the whole interaction. I almost wanted to leave without even getting anything signed. I was bothered, disappointed, irritated, in a bit of disbelief, and honestly, pissed off. Like, bro, I look up to you. You’re a couple years older than me. I didn’t do anything weird or creepy. I’m a real dude. I just came out of appreciation and support and you treated me like absolute poo in the bottom of your shoe. So then, all my thoughts are like, “fug him. Who the fug does he think he is?” And I don’t have any illusions, especially at that place in my life physically, he would’ve absolutely whooped my ass. But I ain’t no bitch and never have been. If it came down to it, imma get my shots in even if I get my ass whooped. That was always my mentality. If I’m gonna go out, I’m gonna go out fighting. So I’m thinking through all of this… like I was just trying to be nice and you just disrespected me, and because of the structure of things, I had to let it slide. And to be honest, I stand in business when needed, but I’m also not a confrontational guy. I prefer the path of least resistance, but I don’t tolerate disrespect. So again, processing all of this, I’m just ping-ponging my own thoughts like, “I should just leave, fug him. He ain’t nobody. Who tf does he think he is?” versus, “Well, maybe did I approach wrong? How would I feel if I was him? Let me remove emotion from this and what does it look like. Actually, you know what? Be the bigger person and go through the line again and show him you meant no harm and you’re a good dude. You can redeem this interaction.” So, ultimately I went with the latter. I saw Steve interact with all of the people ahead of me, and I will say, he was fantastic with all of the kids. And I saw even a few of the men, he laughed with and had some seemingly genuine exchanges, so I’m thinking it was just that he didn’t want to be approached outside of that setting… okay, cool. So, I’ll just put my best foot forward and we’ll salvage this day. I finally get up to him at the tent and I ask, “how’s the leg Steve? [this was before the 2005 season, after he had broke his leg/ankle against the packers the year before]”. He signs the photo and without even looking up is just like, “Yeah it’s good.” Short as hell. I was like, “Great to hear, man! I appreciate you and hope you have a great season!” He just says thanks, again, without ever looking and onto the next person. Every response was short as hell and cold as ice. Dude was a certified dickhead. After the whole thing, ultimately, I felt bad for going. I really wished I hadn’t. I now had a completely different image of Steve, and not that he cared, but him at the time being a hero of mine, it shattered all of that. I probably thought about that interaction the whole drive home and actually regretted not only going, but that I even went back in the line and waited to still have the brief interaction and signing - because again, growing up in the environment I did, if it’s fug me then it’s fug you. Hero or not, you ain’t poo to me either once I know what the energy is. But I have always tried to default on being the bigger person, but that poo doesn’t always feel good. So, really I was just kind of like, “damn, that poo sucked.” That was the overall feeling I had. He just seemed unjustifiably unhinged and on some real psycho poo. So, after that point, I still was a fan of the player and the way he played the game, and always found him entertaining, but thought he was just a real shitty human being. Sometimes, because of what he projected with certain things, like I remember E60 did some piece on his faith and him washing the feet of the homeless and they interviewed his wife and tried to frame it as some redemptive thing… I would always look at it as fluff. Because I could still see who he was. I would think to myself, “ain’t no way he’s this stand-up, faithful guy, family man.” Because just like he says he is, I also come from a rough background, and as a result, I study people. I observe them. I watch behaviors and patterns. Irregularities. Ticks. Their approaches and reactions. And some poo is embedded at a core level for people. I’m not God, so at the end of the day, who he is or isn’t is between him and God. But, I just knew he was a selfish, asshole of a person - that was embedded in his core. I saw it that day. But to be fair, also as I’ve gotten older, I realize people are a product of their environment and experiences. So, some people develop certain behaviors and mechanisms out of survival, be it physical or mental. And he, like I have, did just that, and it’s shaped much of his life, good and bad. So, on one hand, I get it. But, outside of someone posing a threat to me, I could never see myself treating people that way. I also could never see myself having my fragile feelings so hurt that I punch a teammate and break his eye socket for asking to see a play I failed on. I also couldn’t see myself punching a man from behind him while he is unaware and on a knee. I also couldn’t see myself cheating on my wife (and kids) for a cum dumpster and then acting with zero remorse after. Even as protective as he acted of his wife and her reputation throughout his career, I saw through that poo. He almost fought Michael Irvin in a NFL Network broadcast for insulting the suit his wife picked out for him. If she mattered that much to you, you wouldn’t have been rawdogging a skeezer that apparently most of Baltimore had had before you. So, if you ask me - and who tf am I? - Steve is a dick. Straight up. He’s not a good dude. He might have some good moments, but you can tell a lot by someone’s actions, not their words. Even in that interview, Chan calls Jake trash and all Steve said was, “He got me paid.” He didn’t honor him, appreciate him, take up for him, even with a guy that he admitted he had bad blood with for almost a decade. You just let them poo in the QB that got you the triple crown and most of your hall of fame stats. And then laughed about it. By the way, he still works with Jake when he does Panthers preseason. He has to look at that guy and be around him. He just illustrated that Jake, and everyone else, is a means to an end. What can he get out of people? What can people do for him? That’s the point for Steve. And for all the talk about therapy, he still says stuff like that bullshit about if you beat someone up, just because they lost, they say it’s unfair afterwards and he cheap shotted him. That’s some sweet revisionist history because we know for a fact that he cheapshotted Lucas. It was reported in and even photographed. And by all reports of the Anthony Bright attack, he also cheapshotted him. There was even talk that the Panthers might release him for his actions. And iirc, didn’t he settle a suit with Bright? He also said something to the effect of how the 4 of them made it to the level they did, and anybody criticism him hasn’t made it to that point or done what he’s done, so basically non-athletes are less than. All of that paints a very full picture. And even them joking at the end where he says he might get Chan and say he was in his house and it was self-defense - which also came off a little clunky and unsettling, because he also said he’s familiar with his house, and a Chan isn’t. I got the feeling that also alluded to guns. And Chan, like I did, laughs it off and plays the bigger person role… Steve laughed, but he ain’t joking. He also made an allusion earlier in the interview that “you might be my neighbor, but if you come knocking and asking ‘what’s going on?’ You ain’t gonna like the person that’s answering the door and what they have in their hand,” which I’m assuming he means a gun. Your 46 years old and alluding to pulling a gun on someone who presents as a concerned, even if nosy, individual. You can handle that without a gun and eliminate it being a problem moving forward, so why reference that? I also am old school and default to “mind your business.” But that’s unsettling. I’m not gonna lie, Steve does not seem happy like he says. He does not seem matured or healed. He does not seem changed. He still comes off as narcissistic, selfish, and at times, unhinged. He has brief moments of humanity. But again, even in describing his interactions with teammates he fought, there is ZERO accountability. In talking about his affair, he takes zero accountability in facing what he did - he won’t talk about it or explain it because he says he doesn’t owe it to anyone. He says, “I was wrong,” and that’s it. That’s not taking ownership or accountability, it’s lip service. He goes onto say the only thing he regrets about it is how it affected his kids. The same wife he cared for all those years publicly, now doesn’t mean poo? You don’t care how it hurt her or affected her or turned her life upside down or humiliated her? That’s some sociopathic poo. Again, Steve is entertaining, and I pray he finds peace and healing, but after watching that whole interview, I am concerned his story will not have a happy ending. He is not well.

We theorized this was possible...

Weight classes exist for a reason. I think the Panthers likely have had tons of players that could have handled 89…..but that would require them to be a certain type person and plus there is the entire org issue at hand. He was the star and dude organizationally. You can’t just deal with the problem child star any way you want. 89 had some built in protection systemically most likely. Very few dudes the org probably could have tolerated standing up to him….like you said Pep is one and probably Cam the other. and still think there is a long laundry list of in house 89 stuff we don’t know about. I doubt 89’s vague and short answer for we left is a good picture of that reality too. 89 happened to want to leave at exactly the same time his importance on the team didn’t allow a the team to excuse anything and everything from a guy. Cam and Luke were better players by then and better employees.

Limit SF possessions, win by 3-7 points. Don’t limit, lose by 17.

I would feel that way if my team lost to the panthers....twice. haha

Was such a confusing hiring. He proved his first chance at HC how bad he was.

Sell out to stop the pass? Why in the world would they do that. one half of football vs Atlanta doesn’t rewrite how you play us.

Aho tonight.

I think this team comes out and plays hard and we win a close one to put the league on notice that we are back to being relevant. I predict a score of 28-24 Panthers with a viral clip of Bryce Young hitting the Dab after a rushing TD. That clip then airs on every sports network for the next week till we get boat raced by the Rams.

The niners are so thin on defense, they are going to sell out to stop the pass (which they already struggle at) this is going to be a Rico game. We will probably be good for 20-24 points. Question is going to be how does our defense play.

you voluntarily hired Raheem Morris as HC, what did you think was gonna happen lol

Bryce's performance Sunday, moved his trade value up from a mid day 3 conditional to a late day 2 conditional. IMO.

Weird Matt Ryan was the only thing holding that franchise together...

Right now there are three west coast NFC teams in a 1-2 game window of winning the division or out of the playoffs. San Fran know this and are very unlikely to not give their best effort. I look for them to follow the Saints game plan in shutting down our running game but unlike Atlanta keeping a Defence lineman in front of BY. They may not get a sack, but if they induce BY back into the "bunny hop" throws, it may work better for them, IMO. SF 27 CAR 13

I don’t know man. His stock is down with me from his bad takes on the podcast trail and his home life. What he did to that. His kids. He is in a sense no better than the men his mom shacked up with. She was probably no prize herself. SOB is probably still my favorite Panther player when suited up.

Yeah we are scalded dogs. Or cats. We don’t go optimistic all that easy, for good reason.

That is a good point there. We are getting what a lot of us felt was the minimum reasonable expectation. That we play competitively and we get some meaningful games in December. We may not be quite into being relevant in December but have a chance to be. And I say reasonable expectations as the bar for the franchise on a yearly basis. Not specifically this year, but all years.

I think I'll pass. I'm pretty over this dude nowadays.

28-3 really destroyed this franchise