SetfreexX

Andy Reid or not, the coach he cut his teeth under was Rivera. He was fired in PHI... That's not coaching tree success, that came here in CAR and most of the talk about him getting HC considerations was after a few years here. Had nothing to do with ''Andy Reid'' ties.

So you're unfamiliar with Ron's success in San Diego and Chicago as the DC, or early in McD career when Ron had to handle play calling - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/17/sean-mcdermott-lands-on-his-feet-in-carolina/ Either y'all young or just don't care to keep up with how things actually happened here over the years. Rivera groomed McD and helped him become who he is as a coach. You can't take that away because "Ron was too conservative".

Those guys are taken, in MIA if you have Hill / Waddle / Gisecki / theose HBs / Armstead and that OL, plus that defense I'd wonder about the coach not to mention a top pick at QB. Daboll, furthest thing from young, was a proven NFL Coordinator was not a ''young up and coming OC'' -- inherited Andrew Thomas, and they draft the tackle from ALA who's name escapes me atm, and two picks before him got Thibodeaux. He also had a lot to work with and is closer to my alternates of -- Reich / Caldwell than that of they young, unproven OC's. Taylor inherited the #1 overall QB in one of the few occurrences where it worked out. __________________________________ You're going to need to do a little better than that. What are those coaches doing in 2022 with what we had to work with. That would be the question I'd ask myself in your shoes. Not faulting them you coach what you get, but are any of them doing more with less is a better question.

Did McDermott do this, also Ken Dorsey OC for HC interview...will he also do this since it's ''who he been with and learned from''? Or does being an OC absolve his from this blanket comparison...why isn't McD Rivera 2.0, he was the first Rivera tree hire....

What other coaches....I already said I'd be on board with a proven NFL coach (Reich / Caldwell / Wilks) of the young up and comers who's going to come in and have players respect day one? Dorsey might be the only one due to his time here, would he be a Rivera re-tread since he was on that staff, or since he eventually became an OC would he be ''an outside the box'' modern NFL guy who goes for 4th and short all the time, and is brash, etc. Also Wilks is not Rivera, anyone with eyes / football acumen could see there was only ONE way for this team to win games in 2022 with this roster. This years plan doesn't' apply to 2023. Maybe some should consider that.

History also says these inexperienced OC's will fail or succeed the same way Wilks could fail or succeed. The ultimate question is what makes you or anyone think a 1-3 year OC is a stronger option...what is the reasoning other than the ''the offensive guys wouldn't be conservative''. Steichen was the OC last in in PHI too, people want him now for two reasons: 1) Philly added a legit WR #1, and has had one of the BEST OLs the last few years 2) Philly won at a high clip this year The two options above are possible because: 1) QB on a rookie deal that is ''good'' 2) One of the best defenses in the league ___________________________________________________ No one was wanting Dorsey or Steichen back in 2020, they are the flavors of the month now, and if those teams didn't have a combination of - Coach / QB / really good roster most folks wouldn't even know who they are. Other than coach offense what would you say these inexperienced OC's would do better as a HC?

From someone you all may respect more than me behind a keyboard.

So when nine are from a team not of his making, not of his choosing, you hang all nine simply on him ''not being quality enough'' when he just took a 1-4 team to 7 and 10.... I'd say that's some damn good coaching considering the gaps we have on the roster, and no QB.

Then who's the hire that gets you excited, what does ''x'' candidate bring that warrants the excitement. NFL coaching staffs are an exercise in nepotism, always has been a good ole' boys / my guys kind of operation. That's not going to change with a new coach, Steichen will pull from PHI's staff / Dorsey from BUF and possibly some former Panthers guys elsewhere / Moore would bring guys from DAL, and maybe even some collegiate contacts he's maintained, same for Reich / Caldwell both former Colts coaches. The only that would really changes is tied to if the coach is an Off minded guy versus Def, and most comments in here simply ''want'' an Off minded guy, but no real preference has been provided, and no real record of success for any of them has been referenced, which I covered in the fact that I'd like Reich or Caldwell.

How can we say Wilks is familiar, to Ron, or Fox until he actually has a QB / Staff to judge him in full by? That's why I think it should be him, these new guys bring little experience if any even in their area of expertise (1-3 years of OC experience) and never led a team, and on the other hand Wilks has a lot of NFL experience which is why I think he was able to do what he did this year, which to me earned a look moving forward. For all the respect Josh McDaniels received as an OC, look what he's done in DEN / OAK. Do we really thing a McVay, or Shanahan is to be found in Steichen / Moore / Dorsey? That's all I'm saying.

I wonder how many other NFL teams lost 3 games or more by double digits SEA - 3 double digit losses NYG - 3 double digit losses MIN - 5 double digit losses MIA - 4 double digit losses _______________________________________________ Here are four playoff teams that were WC / Division winner (MIN) -- the division winner has the same amount as us under Wilks... The difference all those teams have is they have a competent quarterback. Off or Def minded or not, it doesn't matter if you don't have a quarterback. You'd think and ''offensive'' minded guy wouldn't lose by double digits, the coach in MIA he's such a brilliant offensive mind that it doesn't matter if Tua or Teddy B are playing, offensive mind will over come the absence of a viable quarterback. And to some degree I say that with sarcasm as like I mentioned, you have to have a quarterback to score, the fact we only had three with Wilks and a QB carousel says a lot about the job he did here with a skeleton staff / post firing some Rhule left overs (Cooper / Snow). What's the next goalpost we want to move?

So you're saying McD is the only defensive minded coach capable of learning...and that you ACTUALLY need a QB to not lean towards being conservative when trying to win games because you are at a disadvantage.... Man I wonder what I've been trying to explain this whole time....*checks notes* Damn, that's exactly what I've been saying, the primary issue isn't outright the coach now that Rhule is gone, it's the absence of 1) A legit NFL QB, and 2) A legit NFL OC / mind on the staff in general.

The other bars provided were limited at best...and without context. If it's derailed its derailed by those with no intent to have an open conversation about it versus simply dismissing the notion like has been done by many, or simply, ''not making it past the title'' which is why those folks were categorized and I even included ''in jest'' as to not seriously demean, belittle, or provoke. It seems that effort may have been lost in the effort to respond as quick as possible to ''call me out''.

So an outright unrealistic expectation... Versus taking a team out of the gutter and in position to compete for the playoffs, you play who you play. It was us and TB, ATL wasn't getting in, and neither was NO down the stretch. It was a two team race in Week 17, so from 1-4 to that is a resurrection; and honestly finishing .500 could also be considered an unrealistic expectation as no one saw that coming either.

HC Candidates Linked to Panthers: Sean Payton Frank Reich Jim Caldwell Kellen Moore - Been an OC for 3 years iirc Ken Dorsey - First year OC in BUF, been a QB Coach for several Shane Steichen - Been an OC with LAC / PHI the past three years Demeco Ryans - Turned down opps Ben Johnson - Staying with DET ____________________________________________________ These are who come to mind off the top of my head, Payton, Reich, Caldwell I could all see being better than Rivera, I have also said I'm good with two of the three (would prefer not to lose draft capital to hire a coach) Of the three young OCs up and coming who is getting you into the playoffs, and what makes you feel that way, what can you base it on that is tangible. Who will be their DCs based on what's available, etc.

I do it for those that pay attention, it's not like I think he's the next great head coach, but I believe he's better for the ''Panthers'' than an up and comer with one year of OC experience, and no history at all. If he had not had the interim time it would be easier to dismiss him if you just look at the ARI situation without context. But that isn't the case. I'm fully aware most of the guys against it fall into one of a couple categories: Didn't want Cam PTSD from Rivera's conservatism even though it led to a lot of success / even now in WAS where they have more playoff appearances than us since he was fired with no QB to this day Ford F-150 ________________________________________________________________________ Some of that I say in jest, I want a better offense like everyone here, I think you can still keep Wilks' leadership by also hiring a strong OC -- I'm 100% ok with poaching a SF / LAR offensive assistant to add as an OC over McAdoo. I think what most of the folks that post that they are against this, don't seem to talk about ''WHO'' the hire should be....? I also said if we go the offensive route - Reich / Caldwell are my choices over ''insert young OC''. Leadership, and experience are what we presently need at the HC spot in my opinion Wilks, Reich, Caldwell could all provide that. This was never set up as a Wilks or bust post, just ''why'' I think he makes the most sense based off this past season along with projecting a better roster, with a QB worth a damn moving forward.

After two years of .300 win %, and a 1-4 start... To being in playoff contention up until Week 17.... Please define resurrection, because I know damn well watching on Sundays became worth it after he took over...

Do you know why... Can't be any planer, we DO NOT, and in those games this year DID NOT have a quarterback. Having QBs on the roster is not the same as ''having a quarterback''. ________________________ Pounding the rock was all this roster was capable of doing / sustaining _________________________ Some of ya'll acting like this season happened while we had a legit offense. Moore / the OL / Foreman....that was all we were really working with TMJ had flashes, Shi, had some flashes, we got practically NOTHING from the TE's outside a few Tremble TDs, but no consistent game to game TE threat... Like what exactly were people thinking was going to me a recipe to attempt to win games...

Spoken like a true huddler... Fact is, he resurrected this team damn near instantly with nothing to work with in the QB dept.

So on this roster with McAdoo as the inherited OC, and Baker, Sam, and PJ...you want to just air it out all over the yard just because that's what teams do now... Teams that can do that generally have the personnel to do that, and that starts with a QB... So who we ushering in this new age with that was on the 2022 Panthers roster...

McD's last year here 2016 26th in PPG allowed 21th in YPG allowed Steve Wilks 2017 11th in PPG allowed 7th in YPG allowed _______________________________________________________ Tell me more about riding coattails with the same personnel as you mentioned. As far as those double digit losses you throw out with no context -- only 3 were as the interim Panthers coach. (LAR (1st game as interim), CIN, BAL (10 points) The other three losses were by - 3, 8, and 6 points, that's a point differential of 5.67 So again, as stated, he didn't select his staff / QB in ARI and we're putting the results on his head 100%...got it. You're going to have to do better than throwing out stats from the ARI time as 1) it was 5 years ago, and 2) his lack of impact is limited due to and I say this again, not his staff / not his QB.

Pretty sure PJ had early turnovers that sparked the snowball, and if you watch the pressers, two of those three TD's was man coverage with deep safety help for each half of the field. So a better question would be were was the help, Keith like when Donte' fell just got beat by a better received. Wilks re-capped it in the presser after the game. If you only watched the game I could see how you might feel that way. Back to CIN let's not act like they are not a good team, and team many aspire to be. We got whooped, but the offense as we know being limited didn't show up, and the turnovers early killed us which meant running was no longer an option.

A close loss isn't a loss...FIFY And you can't take away or diminish the appearances just because you are not a fan of the coaching style, that is simply ignorant.

This is on the list of things why, which are in the OP. Again, I isolated this game as we limited their offense, and had a plan on offense to take advantage of their defense. IE: out-planning / out-coaching Same way we handled SEA, we know Darnold and PJ are liabilities at QB, yet we found ways to win with a GLARING weakness at QB. It's cool most folks here want an offensive minded coach, folks are also straight up dismissing the job he did this year, with this mess. Is your Ben Johnson's of the world going .500 with this??? That's a legit question to consider. Damian Williams was an established HB in GB, and set a record this year IRL, our gameplan limited that Aman-Ra was one of the best receivers as far as targets / production we limited that, and if not for the early bomb to Chark, we likely hold them under 20 points for the game. You can't highlight the failures and dismiss the success at the same time acting like what he did was not impressive, and likely deserving of more.

You're missing the point -- at no point did I say we should pound the ball... What he did as a coach was find an ''identity'' and a ''way to win'' with this roster. That's what a ''good'' coach does. Buffalo ''became'' a team that can pass the ball, but they also went out and traded for Diggs to give Allen a legit #1. Rivera failed to do that, I don't see Wilks making a similar mistake. This isn't about the old way vs new way, this is about who I think is a good coach, regardless of his Off / Def background.