Proudiddy

My thoughts exactly. Just chuck it deep and give him a shot. Once you held it that long and its a fuging two man route, your only other option is doing what he did or taking a sack. And same as you said, I' not an NFL QB, but if you got a guy running to the sideline and he already has reached the boundary, you can't ever fuging throw that late. This is elementary poo he is still struggling with. At least if he throws it up and gives DJ a shot to run underneath it, either you complete it for a big play, it's incomplete, or you throw a deep pick. All better options than the one he chose.

DJ came open. And the line gave Sam an hour and a fuging half to throw it with no pressure. Sam is a fuging train wreck scared to pull the trigger deep. He's a lesser version of Bridgewater and it's time to start looking for a real QB. They might want to swallow their pride and sign Cam back. Sam's garbage.

The other thing that bothers me about where we're at now with his playcalling is that now that DBs jumped routes 2 straight weeks for key INTs and the story about Robby's blow up comes out, it takes away the opportunity to surprise them here in the immediate . Teams will now expect it's coming, especially this week, because it's become such a huge, noticeable issue. And thats why he isn't a very good coordinator. Good ones see teams sitting on routes and they make the needed adjustments immediately before teams even know the adjustment was made. But, now, it just feels like we've been backed in a corner.

Honestly, I'm reaching that point. I'll always be a fan of the Panthers and hold my allegiance to them, but I realized a few years ago, especially after Superbowl 50, the only way to ensure one is to curry favor with the league office. You can only do that be either developing or obtaining one of the top 5 superstars in the league or so (and keep them healthy), or build an undeniably good team with great coaching that is capable of making the playoffs every year, thus recognized as a perennial contender. When we had the best player in the league, we ran him into the ground within a year after his MVP season, so giving ourself a chance to get to another Superbowl went out the window as soon as we were pushed out of Superbowl 50 by league storylines and officiating. Anyways, the only way to obtain a league superstar or a perennial winner is through good ownership. The realization I had a few years ago is that if you look around the league, most ownership sucks and are incapable of running a winning organizations. Only a handful of organizations in the league have been winners during any significant stretches, everyone else has had small spurts where they just lucked into winning. Look at the Lions, Bears, Browns, Cardinals, etc. - some of the oldest franchises in the league and they have abysmal history outside of a few small spurts of success. Now, we have a chance to turn it around with new (and very wealthy) ownership in Tepper, but it also takes the ability to find and appoint the right leadership that create a winning culture and system. Patriots and Belichick, Baltimore and Harbaugh, Seattle and Carroll, Pittsburgh and Cowher and then Tomlin, KC and Philly before them with Reid... these are the most recent teams with sustained success. Tepper gave us new hope, but it isn't very promising so far. He held onto Rivera too long, Hurney as well, allowed Cam to be jettisoned when the two guys that followed have been worse (despite Cam's injury issues and physical condition), then paid out the wazoo for Rhule and his handpicked staff, which are already showing signs of regression and amateurish decision-making. So, all that being said, seeing the direction we are trending now, I'm just not seeing that glimmer of elite, culture-building ownership that the league's winning franchises have. And since I was 10 years old when we first got a team, living for every fall Sunday just to watch our Panthers, only to be let down time and time again... it just starts to wear on you. It's like being in an abusive relationship, and we just keep coming back to be disappointed, hurt, and let down. Again, I will always be a fan and will always have my allegiance and loyalty to my hometeams, but at some point, I have to question how much I'm giving to this team and what am I getting back in return. And at this point, I'm way in the red, and it just doesn't feel very good anymore. Sorry for using your post as a springboard to vent, but this poo is frustrating.

To the point of CMC though, part of his misfortune and undoing, is of his own volition. He has stated emphatically that he is a RB and that he wants all of the touches possible. He doesn't want to give up snaps, and I think that's why regardless of what the coaches say, his touches never markedly decreased, and I also think that's why he was still playing in the 4th qtr before the Texans game. That being said, yes, the TNF games are atrocious and need to be done away with, but honestly, I really only think it cost us Horn for the majority of the year. CMC was gonna end up on IR regardless, whether it was TNF or not.

It's like Haruki Nakamura, except multiplied by like 4.

Rhule just doesn't learn, apparently. I'll be surprised if we win tomorrow, now... I'll also be surprised if we don't descend into a rapid downward spiral from here. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I'm not.

Not surprised. The kind of loss we had last week will do that.

Absolutely no one. Darnold by all accounts I've heard isn't a vocal leader. DJ is pretty quiet. Robby was fiery last week, but I think in general he's a pretty laid back guy, too. CMC is probably the most likely guy, but he is currently Mr. Glass, so it doesn't matter. I know people say QBs don't have to be vocal leaders to be good leaders, and in some instances I agree, but it really, really helps when the guy making the decisions and pulling the trigger every snap is also the guy that can rally the guys up and tell them exactly what they're going to do and then go do it when it's needed.

100%

If you asked me before we played Philly? We would whoop their ass. If you asked me now, after Philly? They would curb stomp us. This coaching staff has a lot to prove after the poo they pulled the last two weeks and it being the culmination of all the issues they never resolved that have been ongoing since week 1. The staff has to prove they're capable in the coming weeks, and a lot of it has to revolve around adjusting the OL and/or scheming around it... otherwise, we won't have to worry about the playoffs.

Yeah, the body language and untimely gulp were extremely telling. But also, I am fuging tired of hearing about Deonte needing to slim down... he's a fuging guard. He's a road grader with good feet... let him fuging play. Miller is slimmer and he's getting his ass whooped every Sunday like nobody's business. Come off of it already, Rhule... play the kid. Play Brady, and when Elflein gets healthy, play him at center, because this current shitshow ain't it and it's currently on track to derail any possible success we can achieve this season.

Seattle CB. Gotta catch 'em all! As an aside, I'd didn't realize until today that he played safety in college, so there's also that...

Yeah, that's a worthless blurb... Fitt said in the Gilmore presser that had been calling everywhere looking for OL help and specifically said teams weren't even willing to part with backups - which made me think about Detroit specifically. There's no way he hasn't called them about Decker. Which also tells me that chances are, it's not happening. We've been looking and quality OL is a league-wide problem.

I get what you're saying, but all of those things were possible because of how we played leading up to those moments.

Great points, but again, it goes back to philosophy. We've seen these type of teams before under Fox and Rivera... and that first half decision was a prime example - as you said, if we failed to convert, it would have made it easier to score their 3 points. Well, if they were going to score it anyway, why not go for it? What did we have to lose? And my main issue at this point is Charlton is not a weapon. Even if I want to play it conservatively, he doesn't help me because his punting is atrocious. He isn't giving us an advantage in field position, so just go for it... we'd only have been spotting them 20 yards at that point. Same with the Fake FG Punt. It reeked of conservative, "I'm gonna rely on my defense to win it" mentality. He says he was to figure out the issues, but does stuff like that, and that is what really bothers me.

Yeah, but you don't know what his idea of "4 quarters of football" is, because he also immediately defended the offense after the game on Sunday and said we moved the ball well and scored a FG in the second half. That tells me his mindset isn't to go down and score a TD every time we possess the ball in the 2nd half. There is a clear shift in mentality from the first and second half, offensively and it is because he relies heavily on the defense. Notice how different the offense looked when Dallas went up 22 points? Yeah. I wouldn't read too much into what he says to the media.

No doubt the offense is different with CMC in there, and I know it opens up things for all the other guys out there when he's healthy. That being said, I can't agree with this, Scot. DJ and Robby each had 1k yards last season with no CMC. TMJ was flashing all through camp and preseason. Tremble has shown a ton to like early with the more snaps he's gotten. To me, the issue is the ball distribution. For all of his shortcomings and his penchant for checking the ball down, Teddy spread the ball around well. Yes, he also missed a ton of deep throws to DJ last season, in particular, buy he was spreading the ball around relatively efficiently. I dont know if Brady has shifted his scheme and philosophy, if he's trying to show a different dimension to help himself in his next HC interview, if Darnold is just hitting his first couple of progressions, or if it all lies at the feet of the OL... or it could be a combination of all of that. The line wasn't very good last year either, so I just don't know. But, something is different. The players are just as skilled and talented, but the ball isn't getting to them. And despite the issues with the OL, I'm really thinking it is Darnold's decisions. Even this week, on a down early in the first half, they showed a replay where Darnold looked to his first read, which was Ian Thomas running to the flat to his left, he was wide open. For some reason, Darnold came all the way back across the field to his right side, and threw it over there. The play wasn't hugely consequential, but I remember Olsen saying he didn't know what "spooked" Darnold off of his first read. What I'm getting at is, while Teddy's obsession with getting it out quick regardless of down or distance was detrimental because it robbed us of big plays when they were there, Darnold's seeming indecision is just as detrimental because the ball sometime isn't even getting out of his hand at all... 5 yards is better than -5 yards or a pick or incompletion because everything is covered up. Darnold has said himself that some of the sacks are on him because he's holding onto it too long.

I have felt like there is an element of this going back a few weeks. But, even before the rash of injuries, it seems if we have the lead at the half, Rhule feels thats enough of one that we should sit on it and rely on the defense to shut down the opposing offense to preserve the win. This is also why I think he's conservative about making any adjustments for the second half as well, because if we execute what he plans, we can just chew the clock. He has to expect and want more from his offense in the 2nd half. If we have any semblance of a 3rd quarter the last two weeks, we are 5-0 right now. It is a fatal flaw that has to be addressed.

I mentioned it in another thread, but it's like he is experimenting and refuses to try anything different than what he's set on, going into the game. Either that, or it's the gameplan he had going into the game and much like our staffs that preceded this one, they are going to run it whether you stop it or not and couldn't give a damn about the outcome. And I say that because these last two games, when they are pressuring you immediately and pushing up field with no hesitation, you have to do something to make them back off - screens, smoke screens, reverses, jet sweeps, end arounds and anything else that stretches the defense from sideline to sideline. I've seen successful NFL teams run a bulk of their plays using lateral/horizontal concepts against such aggressive defenses, and eventually they have to slow down or back off... the other option is chucking it deep. It may not be successfully converted everytime, but if you come close enough, they have to respect it and back off, which would at least open up the stuff underneath. What we currently are doing is compressing the field and plays into the strengths of these teams that are super aggressive. So until Brady starts making some adjustments, we're gonna keep having the same issues.

I know how the timing routes work. My point is more to the fact Rhule is saying we can't throw it deep bc of the protection issues, but we kept running deep comeback routes. Yes, they are thrown before the receiver comes out of his break, but even Robby demanded a double move bc he knew they were jumping them... if they're being that aggressive, there isn't much of a read to make and it would likely take the same amount of time, if not quicker to get the ball out. If the receiver sees it and know it was there, it was there. And as I, and others have pointed out, the same thing was happening last week when Diggs got his second pick. Brady isn't giving them anything to think about because he's running the same plays with the same routes... regardless of the protection, if we take a shot deep the results can't be any worse than what we've gotten the last two weeks.

But we have time to wait for comeback routes?

Idk man, it's like Brady is using the games as an ongoing experiment to try specific things out in. I don't get it.

I definitely already have.