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Players vs System

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
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So how have teams like the Steelers and the Patriots maintained success over long periods of time while other - even well run - teams seem to be up and down?

 

How do guys like Justin Forsett, who prior to this season looked maybe slightly above average, suddenly start looking like stars?

 

Why do guys like Kevin Kolb look good in one place and then suddenly regress when they go to a new team?

 

The answer?  It's the system.

 

Many teams (and probably most fans) follow the thinking that the secret to building a great team is as simple as going out and signing the best players.  The problem with that, and even with drafting great players, is that at some point those guys can get expensive. And as we saw with last year's tackle market, the price all too often exceeds the quality.

 

Now, certainly nobody's interested in signing bad players, but the most successful teams are the ones that build effective systems that allow them to 'plug and play'.  They sign guys who fit what they do more so than guys who just had great stats in a contract year.

 

The surest signs of a team like that?  The before and after.

 

By 'before' I mean you see players that didn't seem like world beaters in their prior jobs suddenly come in and look great.  Everyone starts saying "Wow, where did this guy come from?"

 

The 'after'?  That's when you watch a guy who looked like a king clean up with a big contract elsewhere, then promptly go to his new team and suck.  Then everyone starts saying "Man, what happened?  He used to be good."

 

Andy Reid's a prime example of this.  His offensive system can take a guy like Alex Smith and make him go from bust to boom.  On defense, you have guys like Dick LeBeau who are still able to run effective defenses even as their teams let players walk for big contracts elsewhere.

 

I'm hoping that the next time we're looking for a head coach (which I'd like sooner rather than later) we pick someone who has an idea how to build a system that gives us the flexibility to let players just looking for huge paydays walk along with the ability to go 'next man up' and make it look seamless.

 

The question of course then becomes who might be able to do that.

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Raskle Contributor

Raskle

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We're into week 13 and I still don't have a clue as to what system we're trying to run. There's a huge problem in that we look so Jekyll and Hyde from week to week, that it has to mess with our players' heads constantly.

 

 

Personally, I think we're trying to run the "Keystone Kapers" system in both offense an defense, but I can't be sure. Can anyone confirm this?

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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I agree with you that the system is larger than the players.

 

Coaching, and QB play in the NFL is paramount, with coaching being more important in this league than any other.

 

Absolutely.

 

Drafting is too.  You have to be able to scout and draft players that fit your system very well if you want the 'next man up' machine to work.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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We're into week 13 and I still don't have a clue as to what system we're trying to run. There's a huge problem in that we look so Jekyll and Hyde from week to week, that it has to mess with our players' heads constantly.

 

 

Personally, I think we're trying to run the "Keystone Kapers" system in both offense an defense, but I can't be sure. Can anyone confirm this?

 

 

I don't know if our current coaching staff thinks on a high enough level to even craft a system like we're discussing here.

 

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thefuzz Mentor

thefuzz

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Absolutely.

 

Drafting is too.  You have to be able to scout and draft players that fit your system very well if you want the 'next man up' machine to work.

 

Totally agree with you.

 

We, as a fan base has to "grow up" and quit freaking out every time we let a star go.

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thefuzz Mentor

thefuzz

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I don't know if our current coaching staff thinks on a high enough level to even craft a system like we're discussing here.

 

 

Under no circumstances.  

 

 

In my opinion, it goes back to coaches like RR, Norv, LeBeau, etc.....being some of the best X and O guys in the business, but can't/won't create a system.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Totally agree with you.

 

We, as a fan base has to "grow up" and quit freaking out every time we let a star go.

 

We discussed that a while back.

 

Every time we release a player a good portion of the commenters are certain we just let go of a budding star.  They're all but guaranteed to catch on elsewhere (usually with the Patriots) and make us pay.

 

Imagine the brouhaha if they dump Stephen Hill.

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AceBoogie Veteran

AceBoogie

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So how have teams like the Steelers and the Patriots maintained success over long periods of time while other - even well run - teams seem to be up and down?

How do guys like Justin Forsett, who prior to this season looked maybe slightly above average, suddenly start looking like stars?

Why do guys like Kevin Kolb look good in one place and then suddenly regress when they go to a new team?

The answer? It's the system.

Many teams (and probably most fans) follow the thinking that the secret to building a great team is as simple as going out and signing the best players. The problem with that, and even with drafting great players, is that at some point those guys can get expensive. And as we saw with last year's tackle market, the price all too often exceeds the quality.

Now, certainly nobody's interested in signing bad players, but the most successful teams are the ones that build effective systems that allow them to 'plug and play'. They sign guys who fit what they do more so than guys who just had great stats in a contract year.

The surest signs of a team like that? The before and after.

By 'before' I mean you see players that didn't seem like world beaters in their prior jobs suddenly come in and look great. Everyone starts saying "Wow, where did this guy come from?"

The 'after'? That's when you watch a guy who looked like a king clean up with a big contract elsewhere, then promptly go to his new team and suck. Then everyone starts saying "Man, what happened? He used to be good."

Andy Reid's a prime example of this. His offensive system can take a guy like Alex Smith and make him go from bust to boom. On defense, you have guys like Dick LeBeau who are still able to run effective defenses even as their teams let players walk for big contracts elsewhere.

I'm hoping that the next time we're looking for a head coach (which I'd like sooner rather than later) we pick someone who has an idea how to build a system that gives us the flexibility to let players just looking for huge paydays walk along with the ability to go 'next man up' and make it look seamless.

The question of course then becomes who might be able to do that.

Well Alex Smith was the # 1 pick and had like the highest passer rating in the NFL at the time he was replaced by Kaepernick. He was never the bust he was made out to be, just a product of poor coaching. So if anything Jim Harbaugh deserves the credit for turning his career around.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Well Alex Smith was the # 1 pick and had like the highest passer rating in the NFL at the time he was replaced by Kaepernick. He was never the bust he was made out to be, just a product of poor coaching. So if anything Jim Harbaugh deserves the credit for turning his career around.

 

Then why didn't they keep him?

 

Smith is playing in Andy Reid's system now. Reid's offense could make me look like a good quarterback.  That's why I laugh every time a team trades for a QB that looked good playing for Reid. I know it's only a matter of time before they're saying "This makes no sense!  He looked so good before! What happened?" :lol:

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