Bill Voth's chat with Gettleman: Understanding offseason plans

[RelaxImaPro]

And were about to sign Cam for a 100 million too in the near future. At least Romo is 34, plus he has back issues. They need to start thinking about the future.

 

I know some Dallas fans that wanted Manziel bad. Remember, he played in Texas. Yes they made the right decision, that's my point. A blue chip lineman would be more valuable to us tomorrow than another blue chip QB that won't see the field.

 

Remember when everyone and I mean everyone thought they were crazy for over drafting their C Frederick.

 

 

What I'm saying is you made a blanket statement that "people thought Dallas was crazy for passing on Manziel".  I was pointing out that only people with limited football knowledge thought that passing on Manziel was a bad move.  Those are the type of people you find in ESPN/PFT/Facebook football comment sections. 

 

A LOT of people, myself included, wanted the Cowboys to draft Manziel because it would've been a bad move and made for one hell of a circus in Dallas.

 

Starting a quarterback controversy with the most popular and over-covered football team in the world (a team that just signed a $120 million deal with their current QB) is not what you want.  Especially when the owner of that football team is Jerry Jones.

[Pejorative Miscreant]

This BPA crap comes will come up around 50 or so more times between now and the draft.  That said, I think there is context to "BPA" and G'man is not lying when he says he is taking the BPA. 

 

I am not sure how BPA works but I suspect there is a board that takes into account many factors that compares a player to other players at his position and grades out the best person at a given position.  After that I would think that there are variables to remove position based variables to come up with a big board.  From there a weighting can be applied based on need.  To give an extreme example lets say we have 3 players, one OT another QB and a WR that have a raw score of 100 so they are exactly tied.  The weighting based on need of the QB would be a .5 while the rating on the WR would be a 1.5 and the OT would be a 2.  That said the OT would have a final number of 200, the WR 150 and the QB would be rated at a 50.  Hence, the no brainer decision would be to take the OT.    At the same time, Gman can say with confidence that "(Insert Name" was the highest player on oor baahrd and we got the BPA"  After a given round the need factor of the OT would probably fall from a 2 to a lower number so when the next round rolls around you would redistribute the numbers and really have a dynamic board based on who's available, raw score and need weighting. 

 

Again, an extreme example and suspect there could be dilemmas that would put you in a quandary and would force the team to make a subjective judgement as you don't want to end up drafting 7 running backs but I do think there is a method to the madness and some dynamic transitions are taking place on draft day. 

[enikville]

I have been on this page for a while--so since you brought it up, I can add my perspective to support it and illustrate it from my perspective:

 

WR--Everyone says we need a #2, but I think we need balance. another top WR with different abilities and a slot to pair with Philly would make us scary.  PR duties a plus.  We need a wr who can balance the safety(ies).  A WR who will pull the LBs back into the middle and soften the running lanes.  Right now, Benji can be covered with a single safety over top and a #2 CB.  The other WRs are not much of a threat.

OT--I am of the mindset that we need 2.  Remmers was decent to good, but we were playing weaker defenses down the stretch.  While I think he could be better in 2015, I think competition would not hurt.  Gettlemen can say BPA all he wants, but I think he almost certainly will draft a T in the first 2 rounds.  I would not be shocked to see another.  Lotta different directions we could go, like drafting FSU C Cam Erving and playing him at T for a season before cutting ties with Kalil (or his contract).  See "replacing Kalil" options later. 

DT--Dwan and Cole are old and free agents.  We need a DT more than people think.

S--I do not trust what I saw from Boston and I do not like a one-dimensional SS.  DeCoud is gone.  I would like to see Jones at SS more, but I really think we could use a SS--maybe both.

DE--Charles Johnson has a huge contract that has to concern DG.  If I am not mistaken, he will earn $1.25 million per game this year.  Ealy is developing, and may be given the 3 years to shine that Johnson and Hardy were given.  However, if Frank Alexander can stay off the happy plant, we could have a pretty good foursome if you add in Addison.  Still, we need to reap the DE talent when it is harvest time, and this draft is harvest time.

 

C--I think Kalil is going to play this season, but could be a contract liability in the future.  Assuming we are gearing up for that, what kind of player do we need at C?  We need a SMART center. Sometimes the answer is on the roster.  Trai Turner has C experience, is smart, and built like a C. We still have a decent backup and possible RG in Velasco.  Moving him to C would leave Norwell, Silatolu, Kugbila (assuming he ever plays) at G.  Technically, this looks good on Paper. 

The other solution would be to draft Cam Erving, T/C from FSU.  He could compete with Remmers at RT and move to C when and if Kalil has to leave.

 

If a guy is capable of playing Tackle, it seems like a waste of talent to move him inside to Center. Just my .02.

 

[MHS831]

If a guy is capable of playing Tackle, it seems like a waste of talent to move him inside to Center. Just my .02.

 

 

I agree, but if the difference is between an average T and a pro bowl center, then  it is worth considering. 

[London Loves Luke]

When Gettleman says BPA people, he means BPA! That means we're gonna draft 6 QBs this year, and a centre with our 7th.

 

Shula's going to run a shotgun wildcat triple reverse option flea flicker offence.

 

Gettle-goddam-magic!

[Toundra]

BPA...So what if BPA is a QB?

 

I wish good luck to any team in need of a QB with this draft..

[Woodie]

BPA...So what if BPA is a QB?

 

Then we shift gears to BMA - Best Move Available.  We trade down with a QB needy team for significant assets. 

[CelticCat]

What I'm saying is you made a blanket statement that "people thought Dallas was crazy for passing on Manziel".  I was pointing out that only people with limited football knowledge thought that passing on Manziel was a bad move.  Those are the type of people you find in ESPN/PFT/Facebook football comment sections. 

 

A LOT of people, myself included, wanted the Cowboys to draft Manziel because it would've been a bad move and made for one hell of a circus in Dallas.

 

Starting a quarterback controversy with the most popular and over-covered football team in the world (a team that just signed a $120 million deal with their current QB) is not what you want.  Especially when the owner of that football team is Jerry Jones.

 

Fair enough, I get that. However, we're about to plonk some major coin down on Cam soon too. Do you agree that drafting a QB in round 1 with that in the future is not what we should be doing? I assume you do as we agree that Dallas made the right choice. That was my point.

 

If the Cowboys had done it, Johnny could have sat a couple years like Rogers did in GB. At least Romo IS aging. The discussion here was drafting another young QB at pick 25 when Cam is still only 24 or 25.

 

PS, we've both made blanket statements. You can't say only people with limited knowledge wanted Johnny. He did go in round 1 after all.

[Snake]

Sure, in hindsight, TODAY, it's a bad pick. However, there were discussions of him going much earlier in the draft, at one point some suggested he could go #1 or at least be the #1 QB taken. There are no guarantees that Mariotta or Winston are going to be great pros either. RGIII's star appears to have fallen too and he was a top pick.

Maybe the Browns thought they were getting a blue chipper and he was their BPA when what they badly needed was WR's.

We need CB's, WR's, T's badly. A QB, when we already have Cam is a luxury the team simply can't afford. Not unless we trade Cam for multiple picks. I think people take for granted what he has accomplished here, faults and all. We passed on Teddy and some thought he could go very high too.

So was Pickles and that's why we got a new GM. Player evaluation has nothing to do with BPA. If you can't evaluate talent al la Hurney you want have a good pick no matter what you do.

[Mr. Scot]

First of all, it's extremely unlikely that a projected number one pick falls to 25. Secondly, trading back would be ideal and that is part of the flexibility I was referring to.

Finally, if you think DG cares about what Cam and his fanboys think about his draft picks, I think you are mistaken.

If a highly projected QB falls to us, you can trade the pick, groom him for several years, see what Cam does next year, if he balls out give him a big contract and trade new QB for Chip Kelly's entire draft. But the notion that you reach for the likes of a Morgan Moses and pass on a top 5 pick just to protect Cam's feelings is absurd.

 

Valid.

 

 

People thought Dallas was crazy for passing on Manziel for Martin. Just sayin.

 

You consider all options for sure. However it appears he has decided Newton is our guy with his recent comments, then IMO you make a better team building choice. A comparable choice for us would be say a Cam Irvin type. The only way it happens is if Newton is traded.

 

I felt Dallas did the right thing passing on Manziel.

 

But I wanted them to sraft him with every fiber of my being because the circus of Manziel to the Cowboys would have been epic.

 

[RelaxImaPro]

Fair enough, I get that. However, we're about to plonk some major coin down on Cam soon too. Do you agree that drafting a QB in round 1 with that in the future is not what we should be doing? I assume you do as we agree that Dallas made the right choice. That was my point.

 

If the Cowboys had done it, Johnny could have sat a couple years like Rogers did in GB. At least Romo IS aging. The discussion here was drafting another young QB at pick 25 when Cam is still only 24 or 25.

 

PS, we've both made blanket statements. You can't say only people with limited knowledge wanted Johnny. He did go in round 1 after all.

 

I was saying that in relation solely to the Cowboys, which was in reply to your original comment.  Only people with limited football knowledge would've thought Dallas passing on Johnny would've been crazy.  With all the baggage Johnny was carrying, the Cowboys would've been eaten alive this past year... one Romo interception and the pitchforks would've came out.  It didn't take Ms. Cleo to see that one, add in the fact (once again) Romo's huge contract that he JUST signed, and drafting Johnny would've been beyond stupid.  Drafting him really wasn't an option, unless you wanted to turn the team into a circus.

 

And no, we don't need to draft a QB with our 1st pick.  BPA is taken a bit too literal around here sometimes.  If Mariota or Winston somehow falls to that pick, we need to inquire with any QB needy teams if they'd like to trade up and try to stockpile some picks.

 

edit: if they draft a QB to groom behind Romo, it needs to be one far more low key than Manziel.

[CelticCat]

So was Pickles and that's why we got a new GM. Player evaluation has nothing to do with BPA. If you can't evaluate talent al la Hurney you want have a good pick no matter what you do.

 

Player evaluation has everything to do with BPA. How do you rank your draft board without it?

[CelticCat]

I was saying that in relation solely to the Cowboys, which was in reply to your original comment.  Only people with limited football knowledge would've thought Dallas passing on Johnny would've been crazy.  With all the baggage Johnny was carrying, the Cowboys would've been eaten alive this past year... one Romo interception and the pitchforks would've came out.  It didn't take Ms. Cleo to see that one, add in the fact (once again) Romo's huge contract that he JUST signed, and drafting Johnny would've been beyond stupid.  Drafting him really wasn't an option, unless you wanted to turn the team into a circus.

 

And no, we don't need to draft a QB with our 1st pick.  BPA is taken a bit too literal around here sometimes.  If Mariota or Winston somehow falls to that pick, we need to inquire with any QB needy teams if they'd like to trade up and try to stockpile some picks.

 

edit: if they draft a QB to groom behind Romo, it needs to be one far more low key than Manziel.

 

Were both on the same side of the tracks here. We just differ on the extent of the circus. I think they could have handled the situation better than some think. Potatoes Spuds.

[CelticCat]

Valid.

 

 

 

I felt Dallas did the right thing passing on Manziel.

 

But I wanted them to sraft him with every fiber of my being because the circus of Manziel to the Cowboys would have been epic.

 

Me too. However my Dallas mates wanted him bad. I actually had to coax a few off the ledge after they drafted Martin.

I'm a huge ND fan and knew him well. They already had a franchise LT.

 

I actually mocked Martin to our pick at 28 prior to the draft. And I have to admit, I did think Johnny would show more than he has.