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Newton vs Ryan; the verdict?

CelibatePimp

By CelibatePimp,
in Carolina Panthers

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mcdougal Newbie

mcdougal

Posted
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​Also, it's notable that Cam has had inferior weapons and a constantly rotating offensive line, while Luck has had Reggie Wayne and T.Y. Hilton! Even after all that, Newton's QB rating is 85.4 vs. Luck at 86.6. Let's see how Newton does with an improved O line and upgraded receiving targets this year. I bet it will be even closer. There will always be a bias against Cam Newton for some reason. Even if he wins a championship people like Adam Shine will say, "Cam Newtin" won because of his team!

​God, I wish I could pie this more. 

In the season where Luck broke Newton's passing mark, he threw the ball 200+ more times than Newton did in his rookie year.

The Colts literally throws the ball 40+ times a game...and that's when then have a 28+ point lead.

I will give Luck credit for not throwing too many picks in the regular season (at least recently) given the amount he attempts but his total stats is garbage. This is like praising a NBA player for scoring 30 points while taking 38 shots...

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Jangler Newbie

Jangler

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It's interesting that although their numbers are remarkably similar, it's always just been a given in the media that Luck is and always will be the better player over Newton. 

 

Its baffling. 

Fear of a black cat.

 

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juliosantos Newbie

juliosantos

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cam has the ability to be the best qb , its up to the players around him if we get the oline to give him time hell almost pick apart any defense . another thing is wrs have to catch the ball i seen multiple times on film cam throw a perfect catch and someone just drops it and stalls the drive for example mike tolberts 3rd down drop vs seattle. i think its going to be much better with the weapons we  gave cam 

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Snake Grand Master

Snake

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​Also, it's notable that Cam has had inferior weapons and a constantly rotating offensive line, while Luck has had Reggie Wayne and T.Y. Hilton! Even after all that, Newton's QB rating is 85.4 vs. Luck at 86.6. Let's see how Newton does with an improved O line and upgraded receiving targets this year. I bet it will be even closer. There will always be a bias against Cam Newton for some reason. Even if he wins a championship people like Adam Shine will say, "Cam Newtin" won because of his team!

I have a feeling Luck is going to slump this year.  They will still make the playoffs because there div is so weak though. Its almost a automatic playoff bid.

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TheRed Newbie

TheRed

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It's interesting that although their numbers are remarkably similar, it's always just been a given in the media that Luck is and always will be the better player over Newton. 

 

Its baffling. 

​It's the hype machine that has been behind him since before he even declared for the draft.

The funny thing is, when you look at the two situations, Newton had it basically just the opposite. Few people even had Newton as the #1 QB prospect, let alone #1 overall.

All that said, Luck is damn good, he's got a bright future. Right now, him and Newton are pretty close comparison wise.

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†William Moore† Newbie

†William Moore†

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In their first 4 years, Cam has about 17k total yards and 115 total TD's.  Ryan has about 14.5k total yards and 95 Total TD's.  Ryan has had a more complete offense for the majority of his years as well.  To me the argument isn't even close.  Newton > Ryan.

"Ryan completes 64 percent of his passes; Newton 59.5 percent. Ryan has thrown for more than 4,000 yards in four consecutive seasons; Newton has done that once, his rookie year in 2011. Ryan's touchdown to interception ratio is 2.3; Newton's is 2.8. Ryan has thrown 22 or more touchdowns in six consecutive seasons; Newton has surpassed 21 once, throwing 24 in 2013. Ryan makes better overall decisions. He's a better pocket passer. He's got a better record (64-44 to 30-31-1). He's had four seasons of 10-plus wins; Newton has one."

http://espn.go.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/13990

You can use that 'first four years' argument all day, fact is it's flawed because players have a tendency to do this thing called "getting better" Ryan went from being a game manager to a legit NFL QB over the course of his career. As of right now, he is without a doubt better than Cam Newton.

He probably still will be in a few years as well, if you wanna make that argument. Looking at Cam's yardage numbers go down every year and his TDs and INTs fluctuate randomly. I'll even include his rushing stats because they go down as well (even though they're not a QB stat)

2011-
4,051 passing yards, 21 TDs, 17 INTs
706 rushing yards, 14 TDs

2012-
3,869 passing yards, 19 TDs, 12 INTs
741 rushing yards, 8 TDs

2013-
3,379 passing yards, 24 TDs, 13 INTs
585 rushing yards, 6 TDs

2014-
3,127 passing yards, 18 TDs, 12 INTs
539 rushing yards, 5 TDs

Now the obvious rebuttal is: " well if Ryan can get better why can't Cam??"

Here's the thing about that: If you want base your arguments in numbers (like you have) Ryan's went up in almost every category the first four years he was in the league.  You can see his progression. The only thing that stands out is his passing yards went down from 2008-2009. However, looking at the years following compared with his first year, it's an obvious aberration. Cam's have only regressed or stayed around the same exact clip. There's nothing that's an outlier with his stats.

Here's Ryan:

2008-
3,440 passing yards, 16 TDs, 11 INTs

2009-
2,916 passing yards, 22 TDs, 14 INTs

2010-
3,705 passing yards, 28 TDs, 9 INTs

2011-
4,117 passing yards, 29 TDs, 12 INTs

It's funny, because Cam's first four years put in a vacuum and compared to others make him look great. But when you actually take a look at them, he's going down and inconsistency is really the only thing he's been consistent at.

So in reality...Ryan is better now, and will probably still be better in three years. Why? He is consistent and Cam shows sign of being that or getting any better.

So I pose a question Panthers fans, and I want serious discussion: What makes you think Cam will get any better? The numbers say he probably won't, the eye test shows he wasn't really 'himself' last year, and he just got a big contract. Is there any reason besides homerism to think he's going to turn it around all of a sudden?

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CelibatePimp Newbie

CelibatePimp

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Newton has a yd/att of 7.5 with Ryan at 7.2. Ryan attempts more throws than Cam does every single year. Looking at their yd/att and factoring in completions %, Newton will have better yds than Ryan. We just don't pass as much as a team hence the decline in passing yds.

Cam reached 4,000yds throwing less than Ryan had to do to achieve the same yardage.

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CelibatePimp Newbie

CelibatePimp

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I think Ryan is the better passer right now anyways. I see Cam continuing to improve on that. He is still developing as a pocket passer. Don't underestimate that kind of experience guys like Luck and Ryan had in college to learn the pro style offense.

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