Is Star as good as gone?

[ctrcat]

No fugging way.  That 2012 season was too painful, our DT play pre-2013 was too painful, and the 2013 draft was too fun for there not to be long term benefits.  I can't wait for the big guy to be a part of the greatest dynasty of the salary cap era as he goes from good to great.

[hepcat]

As good as gone?   No, not yet.  The dominoes will fall into place if/when Short gets his new deal.  Star is an integral piece but money will be an issue.  Just depends how much he wants...will he take a discount to stay and win in Carolina?  Or take bigger money to go lose somewhere else.

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, ctrcat said:

No fugging way.  That 2012 season was too painful, our DT play pre-2013 was too painful, and the 2013 draft was too fun for there not to be long term benefits.  I can't wait for the big guy to be a part of the greatest dynasty of the salary cap era as he goes from good to great.

I'm with you there

If you guys haven't figured it out yet, I'm a HUGE fan of Star's and badly want him signed to a long term deal.

As a Pac 12 alum, I got to see him wreck people at Utah and was actually slightly disappointed when we started to win at the end of the 2012 season and looking like we played our way out of position to draft him.

His false tests at the combine may have been terrible for his draft stock, but it couldn't have made me happier at the time that it put him right back into play for us.

He is a huge reason Luke and TD are as effective as they are

[motocross_cat]

It falls on star.  Like hepcat said chasing paper or chasing rings?

Gman will extend an offer tho, star is too good not to.

I dont think we are going DT anyways.  DE is more likely.

[tukafan21]

3 minutes ago, hepcat said:

As good as gone?   No, not yet.  The dominoes will fall into place if/when Short gets his new deal.  Star is an integral piece but money will be an issue.  Just depends how much he wants...will he take a discount to stay and win in Carolina?  Or take bigger money to go lose somewhere else.

I think it's more than just taking a discount to stay and win in Carolina actually (or maybe just wishful thinking).

But from the very beginning, he came across as a family man, even staying home for the draft so he could be with them.

And with two young kids in elementary school, it wouldn't surprise me if he wants to keep the kids where they're at and not uproot their lives.

It's actually a big reason I wanted to draft him, most rookies come in wanting to live the NFL life and have a good time.  He came into the league with a wife and two young kids, it was very much a job to support his family from day 1 for him.

[csx]

37 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Yes, I get that....

But my point is the general belief around the league seems to be us targeting a DT early.

Why in the world would we be spending a high draft pick on a DT of we plan to keep both of them?

You don't draft a first or second rounder with the expectation of them being a backup for the entirety of their first contract.

General belief among media mean nothing in regards to Stars future. General belief for 10 years has been that we will target TE and Tackle early. It hasn't meant diddly poo.

[Steve Smith]

I am in the minority that I think Star's talent has been bloated due to the play of our linebackers. While it is a mutual relationship, I don't think Star will command more than $7 mill a year and all you guys under the impression he will be tagged is hilarious. He was one of the worst rated DTs on PFF last year, on a top ten defense. 

He's nowhere near $10 mill+ good, sorry guys. 

[SetfreexX]

One thing to remember when forecasting beyond this current season, and next is who's contracts will be gone by then. Just off the top of my head players / salaries for the following may not be here opening the room needed. 

Ginn, Davis, Stewart, Norman, Johnson & maybe even Olsen (I think he's thru 2018 however) are all gonna be 31-35 years old by the end of the 2017 season. 

So I get you all are trying to put your GM hats on and speculate in this 'dead air' time but I think Gettleman has proven he's not just letting talent go, we saw that 1)When he stopped offering so many 1 yr deals to FA's, 2) two years in a row he pulled the trigger on the FT's 3) and for the 3rd time coming, (Cam, Luke) is going to exercise the 5th year option on Lotulelei. 

[t96]

Interior pass rushers are much harder to find than run stoppers. And Star has had some injury problems. That being said, I think the plan is to keep both if possible. Even if we draft a DT in the 1st this year it doesn't mean at all that Star or Short will be gone. Our DT rotation goes 4 deep and it would be unbelievable to add a top DT from this draft class to be the 3rd guy behind Star and KK. I like Soliai and Love but they're not near as good as one of the top DTs we could get could be, and Soliai is older and on just a 2 year contract. Star, KK, top prospect, and Love would be a ridiculous rotation at DT. And it would be insurance in case we can't afford both KK and Star.

[KB_fan]

1 hour ago, tukafan21 said:

So it begs the question, is Star going to be the odd man out and he's gone after the 2017 season?

 

1 hour ago, The NFL Shield At Midfield said:

if we draft a DT early i'd look at it more as preparation for the possibility rather than an inevitability.

I think NFL Shield gave a good reply.  If we draft a DT in round 1 or 2 it will be because:

1) the guy is BPA and is a good fit for our team

2) this is a really strong DT class and we can get someone good at #30.  (Hopefully we'll be picking at #32 next year, and be in the 30's for years to come...!)

3) We won't be keeping Kyle Love forever... and Soliai is not so young.  Given how heavily we rely on DT rotation, having 3 "starters" at DT is a good thing.

4) Star's foot injury.  As far as we know we think he's good to go, but DG may be a little more worried.  We MUST have solid depth in case Star misses games.

So, all that said, I don't think we have any plans to get rid of Star or KK, but drafting an excellent DT high in this year's draft would be very good depth and insurance given that both Star & KK need new contracts, and Star has had some injury issues.

DG drafts like a good boyscout:  "BE PREPARED!"  He showed us that last year with going after Funchess - and thank God he did, otherwise KB's injury would have been much more devastating for us!

 

[tukafan21]

10 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

One thing to remember when forecasting beyond this current season, and next is who's contracts will be gone by then. Just off the top of my head players / salaries for the following may not be here opening the room needed. 

Ginn, Davis, Stewart, Norman, Johnson & maybe even Olsen (I think he's thru 2018 however) are all gonna be 31-35 years old by the end of the 2017 season. 

So I get you all are trying to put your GM hats on and speculate in this 'dead air' time but I think Gettleman has proven he's not just letting talent go, we saw that 1)When he stopped offering so many 1 yr deals to FA's, 2) two years in a row he pulled the trigger on the FT's 3) and for the 3rd time coming, (Cam, Luke) is going to exercise the 5th year option on Lotulelei. 

It's less fear about the money being there as much as it is the speculation about drafting a guy who would appear to be a replacement for either Star or Short

[KB_fan]

12 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

It's less fear about the money being there as much as it is the speculation about drafting a guy who would appear to be a replacement for either Star or Short

We drafted "TD's replacement" last year supposedly in Shaq.  But TD ain't going anywhere until he's forced to.... so, I'm not worried.   By the time some DT we draft in the 1st or 2nd this year needs a new, expensive contract, KK will be nearly done with his 1st mega-contract, and Star wouldn't be far behind.  It's not like by drafting a DT in the early rounds we're going to have to pay 3 guys 10 million plus per year simultaneously.  Why wouldn't you want a starting-quality DT as your depth?  That's what we have at LB, for instance, with AJ Klein.  He could start for most teams, for us he's a backup.  What a luxury!  Let's get that kind of depth at ALL positions if we can afford it!!!

"ALL YOUR LBs (already) BELONG to US!"

"ALL YOUR DTs GONNA BELONG TO US!"

[tukafan21]

19 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

We drafted "TD's replacement" last year supposedly in Shaq.  But TD ain't going anywhere until he's forced to.... so, I'm not worried.   By the time some DT we draft in the 1st or 2nd this year needs a new, expensive contract, KK will be nearly done with his 1st mega-contract, and Star wouldn't be far behind.  It's not like by drafting a DT in the early rounds we're going to have to pay 3 guys 10 million plus per year simultaneously.  Why wouldn't you want a starting-quality DT as your depth?  That's what we have at LB, for instance, with AJ Klein.  He could start for most teams, for us he's a backup.  What a luxury!  Let's get that kind of depth at ALL positions if we can afford it!!!

"ALL YOUR LBs (already) BELONG to US!"

"ALL YOUR DTs GONNA BELONG TO US!"

The difference is Shaq, while a long term replacement for TD, can also play at the same time as Luke and TD.

We didn't see a ton of that this year because he was a rookie who had some injury issues, but I think this year we'll see a lot more of him staying in on nickle as a hybrid LB/S position.

I'd have a hard time seeing many scenarios where we play Star, Short, and another DT all at the same time, yes Short can move out to DE at times, but he's still mainly a DT

[hepcat]

1 hour ago, tukafan21 said:

I think it's more than just taking a discount to stay and win in Carolina actually (or maybe just wishful thinking).

But from the very beginning, he came across as a family man, even staying home for the draft so he could be with them.

And with two young kids in elementary school, it wouldn't surprise me if he wants to keep the kids where they're at and not uproot their lives.

It's actually a big reason I wanted to draft him, most rookies come in wanting to live the NFL life and have a good time.  He came into the league with a wife and two young kids, it was very much a job to support his family from day 1 for him.

Did his family move to Charlotte and put down roots?  Some guys have their families live in their hometown or wherever they were from originally,