I Don't Get The Celebration Here...

[therealmjl]

6 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Fixed it for you

Wow! Cam makes personnel moves to? So that's where he is during draft day!

[therealmjl]

7 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Fixed it for you

And at least you still admit out little you know.

[Jase]

Josh wasn't "fired", so that comparison is pretty ridiculous. He was given the opportunity to seek his value on the open market, something that regular workers like you and me have the right to do at any time.

So it's not at all like being the best fry cook at McDonald's, asking for a raise, then getting fired.

[CoastalCat]

9 hours ago, Proudiddy said:

Josh was a HUGE part of our success this last season.  He's not perfect, and perhaps he overvalued himself, but he's the perfect fit for us.  And the biggest thing that irks me about all of this high fiving over our GM publicly humiliating him (which brings back horrible memories of the Smitty debacle for me), is that he isn't in the wrong.  This is his livelihood.  This is how he makes a life for himself and his family.  And this is most likely his best and only chance at making the most money he possibly can, and so he did what any person in his position would do - see what the maximum amount he can get is.  And GMan essentially castrates him in front of the world for no other reason but his pride.

This isn't a one off either.  We have done this more than once now with prominent players.  Do you think agents and players will be encouraged to do business with us if they can avoid it when we air their kind out like this?

I respect GMan.  The guy knows his stuff and he has made me eat my crow time and again (except for Smitty lol), but this just stinks to me.  I know it's business and the franchise/team's needs are the priority for me as a fan, but Norman is a good guy.  He laid it all out there for us and at his age, he is looking to maximize what he can make...  he did nothing wrong and fans are here acting like it is a celebratory event that he was embarrassed by our FO and will now most likely be playing elsewhere, while we scramble to find a replacement.  Yay!

We don't know how the talks went. They may have mutually agreed that he should shop.

[GoobyPls]

5 minutes ago, mjligon said:

Wow! Cam makes personnel moves to? So that's where he is during draft day!

Yeah let's give credit for assembling the cheapest least talented offense in the NFL and having the best player in the league will them to a SB. Only for that cheaply assembled offense to implode in the biggest stage.

 

all of the credit none of the blame

[Proudiddy]

9 minutes ago, Jase said:

Josh wasn't "fired", so that comparison is pretty ridiculous. He was given the opportunity to seek his value on the open market, something that regular workers like you and me have the right to do at any time.

So it's not at all like being the best fry cook at McDonald's, asking for a raise, then getting fired.

If your place of employment lets you go find your value elsewhere, what does that usually entail, Jase?

I'm not being hyperbolic.  he had a job, now he doesn't.  And he was already allowed to seek his value from other teams through offers.  We just told him that there wouldn't be any other offers coming from us.

[KTM200]

I like Josh and he is one of the top corners in the league. The best no...but top 5, maybe top 3 yes. A lot of people are saying he should be paid 16 mil, he's just trying to support himself and his family, it's his last chance at a big pay day because of his age, etc. People seem to look at this as a one way street and think he should get the $$$ because he asked for it or thinks he deserves it. No corner is worth 16 mil... Look at it from the owners standpoint:

1. They've put him in a system he thrives in and has made a name for himself. Now he wants to hold out for 2 mil more than any other top paid corner. If he bets on himself like he says he does then why didn't he come to the table with a lower base salary with a ton of performance clauses built in like each Interception ='s X $. each fumble recovery ='s X $, each TD ='s X $, etc. until it equaled somewhere near his 16 mil asking price???

2. Without the owner, He and the rest of them wouldn't have a paycheck to play a child's game as an adult.

3. If they did pay him 16 mil they are the one's taking all the risks. He's almost 29, skills decline with age or he could get hurt. They are or should be in a give and take relationship but it looks to me like Josh is only wanting to take. By take I mean take to much dough. If they paid him what he asked and he gets hurt or under performs then he'd still get paid BUT he seems OK with taking the $ under those terms. Can't blame the owners for not taking the risk. 16 mil is A LOT of dough to pay someone.

After all is said and done none of us know the details that have been offered. But it just looks like Josh wants everything in exchange for nothing...I don't fault him for asking but I do fault him for looking like he was unwilling to meet somewhere in the middle to stay with a team that seems to have that extra something that money can't buy. Hate to see him go but I'm banking on Gettlemen keeping the ship a float and moving forward every year...

[Nick_81]

4 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

I think you're inferring a lot.  I'm not intending to day he acted in bad faith, I just think he has a short fuse and doesn't take kindly to being insulted.  Smitty tried him by calling him out and saying Gettleman wouldn't talk to him but was talking to the media, Gettleman almost immediately turned around and released him.

We were supposedly still talking with Josh and his camp, there wasn't much movement, then came rumors that he wasn't coming to offseason workouts and might be a holdout, then almost immediately, Gettleman rescinds the tag and fires him, lol.

That's where i keep bringing pride up.  From the outside looking in, it appears Getts has a short fuse and is quick to fire off the torpedoes if he senses any disrespect.  I don't recall trashing Gettleman throughout this, even in this thread...   and i haven't said he was operating in bad faith.  I just said that I think this incident and the Smitty situation illustrate his lack of patience with certain things, and that may be his one flaw.

I expect him to have another incredible draft, find value from here til the next offseason wherever he can, and for us to compete for a Superbowl with the team he built.  But just like WR has suffered since the release of Smitty and then became an achilles heel for us (both two seasons ago and last season as evident in the superbowl),  i think corner could be a big issue going into next season.

I don't think he has a short fuse at all.  It's very evident that one of their main priorities is protecting the integrity of that locker room.  I think Gettleman and Rivera hold that to a very high standard.  If they feel like a player is compromising that integrity, the result is Smitty, Norman, D-Will, Munnerlyn, etc.  Even if you take Greg Hardy into account, you know, before the whole DV situation.  When asked about playing under the tag, Hardy would say he was perfectly fine with it.  Didn't he sign the tender within the week it was issued?  It didn't cause a single problem.  I don't think it's a situation of, "wanna talk poo... hit the bricks!"  They just cut it off very quickly, so it never becomes an issue.  That's just my opinion though.

[Proudiddy]

Again, this thread wasn't created to make it a Gettleman vs Josh issue.  Nor was it to bash Gettleman, which I didn't think I did, and if you think that's the case, check out my posts when Smitty was released, lol.

I was simply saying to think of it from the player perspective and from a fan's perspective that we just lost one of the top CBs in the game for nothing.

I also just saw the report that he demanded a trade and then Getts pulled the offer.  If that is the case, I still think it was posturing and his dumbass agent thinking it was a last resort way of squeezing money out of us.  I don't think we had to rescind the offer, but if that is what happened, then I think GMan was justified in his reaction, albeit not ideal, and Josh needs to fire his stupid ass agent.

[panthers55]

You seem to be the one doing all the inferring saying that Gettleman has a short fuse and gets easily insulted and then reacts with a knee jerk reaction by getting rid of people.  Smitty was released because he refused to work with the younger guys and controlled the locker room and Gettleman and Rivera wanted Cam to be the leader which Smitty wasnt willing to do by all reports so he was released.  It had nothing to do with patience on Gettleman's part.  The only thing that Gettleman has been faulted for was how he did it, not that it needed to be done.  As for Josh, again you seem to be making all the assumptions here without actually knowing what was said or how negotiations were progressing.

As for wide receiver suffering last year, that was not due to the Smitty loss but the Benjamin loss. Before he went down we were projected to have a very good wide receiver core just like this year.

Would we have been better off with Josh this year?  Depends on whether he would have come in and worked hard or kept holding out.  Gettleman didnt want the drama in a locker room recognized as the tightest in the league.  And he let him go now before the season started because the longer it went the more drama it created.  In my mind Josh figured he had the Panthers over a barrel and he could leverage and squeeze the team all he wanted.  Gettleman showed that no one is irreplaceable and wants players who want to win and arent all about the money.  Since money is what Josh felt was most important, Dave let him go to seek it elsewhere since that is how we roll.  Frankly we are good enough that we dont have to beg people and overpay them to be here like we did in 2010 for example. 

[Proudiddy]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

You seem to be the one doing all the inferring saying that Gettleman has a short fuse and gets easily insulted and then reacts with a knee jerk reaction by getting rid of people.  Smitty was released because he refused to work with the younger guys and controlled the locker room and Gettleman and Rivera wanted Cam to be the leader which Smitty wasnt willing to do by all reports so he was released.  It had nothing to do with patience on Gettleman's part.  The only thing that Gettleman has been faulted for was how he did it, not that it needed to be done.  As for Josh, again you seem to be making all the assumptions here without actually knowing what was said or how negotiations were progressing.

As for wide receiver suffering last year, that was not due to the Smitty loss but the Benjamin loss. Before he went down we were projected to have a very good wide receiver core just like this year.

Would we have been better off with Josh this year?  Depends on whether he would have come in and worked hard or kept holding out.  Gettleman didnt want the drama in a locker room recognized as the tightest in the league.  And he let him go now before the season started because the longer it went the more drama it created.  In my mind Josh figured he had the Panthers over a barrel and he could leverage and squeeze the team all he wanted.  Gettleman showed that no one is irreplaceable and wants players who want to win and arent all about the money.  Since money is what Josh felt was most important, Dave let him go to seek it elsewhere since that is how we roll.  Frankly we are good enough that we dont have to beg people and overpay them to be here like we did in 2010 for example. 

I respect you, P55...  i was simply saying that you were pulling stuff feom my words that wasn't there, most likely due to my past grievances with our personnel dept (namely Smitty).  I believe in Gettleman.  But, i also love Josh as a player.  So, this whole issue sucks.

I may use "charged" words, but I'm not trying to sway people with anti-Gettleman propaganda, lol.  I don't think I'm being given a fair shot to discuss things because many think they know where I'm coming from before they even read through the thread.  

And yes, I am inferring a lot in regards to negotiations, as we all are, because unless we have inside access to them, we don't have any idea exactly what happened.  And that is why we are all here giving our opinion on what happened, although we don't know.

Oh well, what's done is done and we'll see what happens...  i was just trying to shine light on the other end of the spectrum.

[Montsta]

46 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Fixed it for you

Oh Jesus Christ you can't be serious. I'm not going to go turning this into a fuging race thread but weren't you the one that was hating on Luke or JJ Watt as DPOY because they were white? Saying they were the golden boy because of their skin color?

Because if that was you then it's 100% clear why you are so anti-Gettleman and pro-Norman in this situation. 

At least proudiddy and tucker and the rest are making an attempt to have a valid discussion on the subject. 

[bleedsgreenandgold]

3 hours ago, enikville said:

If SB means Super Bowl, you might have celebrated 420 a little too much.

I wish, that was my attempt at sarcasm.

[MadHatter]

10 hours ago, CRA said:

I think a lot of it has to do with the Dave Gettlemen fans that think at this point everything he does will be a home run.....law of averages eventually have to come into play with Dave.   

Dave has done a great job.  But like any GM he will have some blunders.  As close as we were to a Super Bowl I think Norman was worth the headache being tagged and giving it one more shot.   Losing him is a step back.  He was big in our season last year and getting us to where we got.  I think he is overrated myself.....but that doesn't mean we should of let him walk based on how we are built presently 

Norman asked for a trade before the tag last season and he refused to sign the tag and was not going to attend OTA's.  He was the one who put this in motion.

DG had no other real choice...unless he was willing to pay him $16m a season