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Don't look for a big move to replace Josh Norman

Jeremy Igo

By Jeremy Igo,
in Carolina Panthers

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TheSpecialJuan Grand Master

TheSpecialJuan

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We run a basic zone defense that does not necessarily need great corners to function at a high rate. This is the reason why Gman offered Josh $11 million and not the $16 million he was asking for. $11 million is how much Gman thought Josh was worth. Yes this move weakens our team in the short run but with the tremendous cap savings, it sets us up very nicely for the future.

 

 

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TheSpecialJuan Grand Master

TheSpecialJuan

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Don't get me wrong, I was disappointed we couldn't come to compromise in negotiations and figure something out. I tell you I was shocked we let Josh go. This was a brass balls move by Gman that tells everyone, I will do what is best for the long term future of my team.

We've won without Steve Smith, we've won without DeAngelo Williams, we've won without Greg Hardy, we've won without KB, and now we will win without Josh Norman.

 

 

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Catufb85 Newbie

Catufb85

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Too many good depth addition CBs in this draft to reach for a 2nd-3rd round CB in the 1st.  Gettleman will still go best player available whether that's DLine, WR, Tackle, or Secondary.   In the 3rd-5th round look for guys like Harlan Miller, Rashard Robinson, Ryan Smith, DeAndre Elliot ( had to look him up from Colorado State : official meeting with us), Deiondre Hall, etc.  There are some great value in these guys in mid rounds.  1st 2-3 picks need to be BPA.

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TheWiz Proficient

TheWiz

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1 hour ago, Jeremy Igo said:

 

He isn't a first rounder on the Panthers radar. If he was selected it would be a reach over guys they like in the first round. 

 

Pipe down or you are deleted, junior. 

The hand strikes ...... And gives a flower.

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Jeremy Igo Newbie

Jeremy Igo

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3 hours ago, Servant of Cthululelei said:

Nobody has mentioned him in awhile, but isn't Charles Tillman still technically on the team and not yet retired?  I mean I imagine his ACL tear being so late in the year means he wouldn't be ready week 1, but he'd probably be good to go partway through the season, yes?

His contract was up, no longer on the roster. I would seriously doubt any interest in his services.  

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Bartin Collaborator

Bartin

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8 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

His contract was up, no longer on the roster. I would seriously doubt any interest in his services.  

Not to mention that he won't realistically be ready to play until like week 8 or so given the timing of his ACL surgery.

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Bartin Collaborator

Bartin

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35 minutes ago, Rags said:

Yo I go I feel this is the perfect time to ask, what's the teems feeling on Alexander for.Clemson? Some reports have been popping up about apparent attitude problems, so do we feel strongly about him one way or the other.

If Alexander's ego is like 10 times bigger than Norman's. If Gettleman was willing to just pull the tag off Josh and let him go then it's probably a pretty safe assumption that we will not be drafting Alexander.

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TheRed Newbie

TheRed

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I like Bene, but he got burned like toast more than a few times last year. He's talented, but there are going to be growing pains.

I'm not going to worry yet. But after witnessing Cason play corner for us, I'm not just gonna throw on the Panthers shades and think everything is going to be gravy either.

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Jeremy Igo Newbie

Jeremy Igo

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2 minutes ago, TheRed said:

I like Bene, but he got burned like toast more than a few times last year. He's talented, but there are going to be growing pains.

 

As a nickel, yeah. Totally different position with more responsibility. I don't remember many miscues on the way outside.

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KB_fan Proficient

KB_fan

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2 hours ago, nctarheel0619 said:

You do know Fuller is predicted to go in the first right? 

Actually, in the 14 mock drafts I did at fanspeak, using 8 different boards (with priority given to NFL, CBS & Draftek boards), Fuller wasn't picked once in the 1st.  He was picked 71% of the time in the 2nd and 29% of the time in the 3rd,

But for us to pick him, we'd probably have to grab him in the 1st or trade up in the 2nd, because he was only available to us at pick #62 29% of the time (4 of 14 drafts) and never available to us at #93.

Of course, that's depending on the accuracy of the boards & mocks at fanspeak, and also all the drafts I did were before the Eagles trade yesterday, so that could shake things up.

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    • CPantherKing
      So, just what is it that makes a QB "elite"?

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When you look at 1st rd QB success, eliminate these rare ones from your samples because they are trained to be championship QBs. 100% of them have taken their team to a championship. Also, the Bill Walsh tree knows the formula for building an offense and finding a QB QUICKLY. The question is why haven't others figured it out & continue to waste draft capital on QBs? Based on my QB evaluation system, here's the QBs I had slotted for the Panthers over the past 10 drafts. Patrick Mahomes, Brad Kaaya, Cooper Rush, Lamar Jackson, Brett Rypien, Tyler Huntley, Jalen Hurts, Shane Buechele, Desmond Ridder, Brock Purdy, Aqeel Glass, Jack Coan, Aidan O'Connell, Tanner McKee, Spencer Rattler, Devin Leary, Sam Hartman, Quinn Ewers. The ones in bold were the ones that rated the highest for pro championship qualities (probable franchise QBs). Obviously,  we didn't need them all, but it's about flow of pro championship qualities shown in college and not the most physically gifted. Also, there are a few QBs every decade who have the qualities, but never get a chance. If you're talent evaluation/QB system is good enough, you can go get 2 to 3 of them tomorrow to show what they can do when their name is called. I expect 1 of every 6 QBs to be worthy of being a franchise QB. There's strict rules to the depth chart qualifications, rotation, minimum KPIs and cuts/trades for me. Panthers have had Collins, Beuerlein, Weinke, Delhomme, Clausen, Newton, Bridgewater, Darnold, and Young. If you include Lewis, Peete, Allen and Mayfield, the Panthers have had 3 of 13 championship level franchise QBs. 1 of 5 (1 of 6 if you don't count Collins). It's the same for every franchise. The difference is a certain coaching tree knows how to move them through quicker than all the others while building defense with the most valuable draft picks. For Walsh, Montana(3rd rd) was his 3rd QB and Young(trade) was his 12th (9 yrs). He had a process allowing him to move through them rapidly. For Holmgren, Favre(trade) was his 4th QB and Hasselbeck(6th rd/trade) was his 15th QB (10 yrs). Neither of them settled on or tried to solve the problems of their 1st QB. For Andy Reid, McNabb(1st rd) was his 2nd QB and Mahomes(1st rd) was his 15th QB (19yrs). For John Harbaugh, Flacco(1st rd) was his 1st and Jackson(1st rd) was his 8th (11 yrs). For Sean McVay, Goff(1st rd) was his 1st and Stafford(trade) was his 5th (5yrs). Reid was the slow and stubborn one who wouldn't move on from his QB & had to wait nearly 2 decades to grab a QB that is the rare exception. I present this to show how 1st round picks are wasted on QBs, and it's the process fitting the QB to the system that generates success. Championship leader qualities and a process to move through QBs for a single coach's offense until you find a winner is the formula. The ages of these QBs from the Walsh tree when they won their first SB: Montana(25), Young(33), Favre(27), Mahomes(24), Flacco(27), and Stafford (33). Mahomes is the only sports pedigree QB exception on this list. QBs selected in the top 20 picks that weren't a pedigree QB were discarded by the team that drafted them. It will continue to be the same for the QB position as the dynamics of an offense from coach to field to team to clutch moments are not going to change. The combines/draft is just a media show that will only highlight the rare pedigree exceptions at QB for the NFL. You can line up ANY 12 QBs demonstrating success in college with the pro championship level qualities right now & you'll find a couple franchise QBs. Overrated arm strength & athleticism mean absolutely nothing for success at the pro level (that's a bonus). If they had enough of the tangibles to consistently succeed in college, it will translate to the pros. Currently, the Panthers are on QB #1 being shoved into Canales' system. Hooker is Canales' 4th QB (5th if you count Bryce Perkins). 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I expect the top 20 1st round picks for a franchise QB is the only way crowd to attack this and the Bill Walsh tree. Likely going to tell you that 6th round & later QBs as well as the Walsh tree are the sole outliers. We can count more 6th round and later championship QBs(13) than we can the 1st round pedigree QBs(7). As for the other 47 SB QBs, only 15 QBs have been drafted in the top 20 and led their first team to the SB. The best return is the pedigree 1st round QB, but this is rare. As for top 20 pick QBs that aren't pedigree, you're better off running 6th round and later QBs through the offensive system as quick as possible while spending that top 20 1st round pick on core defense or the rare dual threat skill position player. I don't expect the typical media driven fan to agree. I know SB winning coaches keep signing my college QB targets.
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