Beason chimes in on Nippleshorts

[iamhubby1]

18 minutes ago, carolinajay said:

Josh Norman is a great player but the writing was on the wall and Gettleman opted to move on a year earlier than expected. 

 

IMO, Josh kinda screwed us. He knew from the beginning, that we were not going to be able to pay him what he wanted. He should have been honest with Dave, and said, I will not sign the tag, I think I can get more on the open market. And he did. But he, and his agent, kept waiting for Gman to cave, and prolonging the process. Gman finally got tired of it all, and rescinded the tag.

 

If Josh would have just been upfront with us. We may have had time to address the CB position in FA, before having to resort to the draft. I don't blame Josh to much. After all, he and his agent, were new to this game. They didn't realize what they were doing to us in the short term. I think Josh actually thought he could bluff Gman into getting what he wanted. That was never going to happen.

 

So...by the time we rescinded the tag, the damage was already done. It costs us this year, but if Bradberry, or Johnson, and maybe Whorley, work out in the long run? Maybe one year isn't too stiff a price to pay? Thanks Josh.

[iamhubby1]

10 minutes ago, nctarheel0619 said:

I mean this in the nicest way.  

Do you honestly believe the dumb poo you type on here?  Sometimes to prolong success, a star has to go?  What success is happening currently?  Please, let me know.  

 

Bait that hook. You are using good bait. Maybe you'll get a nibble or two.

[pantherphan96]

38 minutes ago, Bozarden said:

Our very own Jeremy Igo debunked the myth that KK is dissapearing due to him being doubled. He is simply underperforming.

Trust what process? The very problem is GMans hesitation to paying guys other than Cam and Luke big money and we see the results of that now.

if GMan had a history of not paying players you would have a point but the only time he has drawn a line in the sand is with JNo who wanted #1 CB in the NFL money despite the fact that he can't play on an island and shutdown his man. all this money that these Huddle Chicken Littles are so eager to throw at any potential FA will go towards keeping Olsen, Trai, Norwell, and the other young talent that will make up the core of a very dangerous team over the next (knock on wood) 5+ years.

[qazsazsaz]

24 minutes ago, pantherj said:

It was understandable given the cap and that Smith was clearly not the unstoppable force he once was.

I don't understand why people in the Huddle still think releasing steve smith was due to cap restraints.  It was not! It was because Dave wanted the younger guys like KB to mature.

http://overthecap.com/steve-smiths-contract-situation-carolina-panthers/

"If the team fails to pick up the option and release Smith by July 1 they will owe him a $3 million non-exercise fee. If they release him they will need to pay him $3 million in fully guaranteed base salary. So $3 million of this money is indeed protected for Smith. In addition I believe that Smith’s guarantee is of the no-offset variety meaning he can double dip if released. So at a minimum Smith will earn $4 million in the NFL this season and most likely a few dollars more. "

We would still have to pay him in dead money so it hardly affected the cap.  Honestly, I think having SS would have been nice when KB went down. I don't care if we went 15-1, he would have been nice during the Super bow.

[qazsazsaz]

16 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

IMO, Josh kinda screwed us. He knew from the beginning, that we were not going to be able to pay him what he wanted. He should have been honest with Dave, and said, I will not sign the tag, I think I can get more on the open market. And he did. But he, and his agent, kept waiting for Gman to cave, and prolonging the process. Gman finally got tired of it all, and rescinded the tag.

 

If Josh would have just been upfront with us. We may have had time to address the CB position in FA, before having to resort to the draft. I don't blame Josh to much. After all, he and his agent, were new to this game. They didn't realize what they were doing to us in the short term. I think Josh actually thought he could bluff Gman into getting what he wanted. That was never going to happen.

 

So...by the time we rescinded the tag, the damage was already done. It costs us this year, but if Bradberry, or Johnson, and maybe Whorley, work out in the long run? Maybe one year isn't too stiff a price to pay? Thanks Josh.

Do you actually think Josh Norman would not have signed the tag??? What would he have done instead? Sit out the season? Do you really think Norman is that dumb?

And truth be told, we don't fully know what happened between Dave and Norman's agent. Every agent is going to hardball for a higher deal.  That's what agents do. Dave clearly wasn't going to budge like most GMs would have, and that's also why KK is not signed yet.  Let's see if we still have KK next season. In all honestly, I think KK's production is down this year simply because the defense as a whole is playing poor.  He is still a great player and he knows he will command elite money like Norman. Every player is thinking about their own financial good. That's the most important thing. If he thinks he can hardball Dave and make money from a rescinded franchise tag, then he will do that. If you're in his situation, you would to. 

[carolinajay]

13 minutes ago, qazsazsaz said:

I don't understand why people in the Huddle still think releasing steve smith was due to cap restraints.  It was not! It was because Dave wanted the younger guys like KB to mature.

KB wasn't drafted yet when Steve Smith was cut. A reason he was cut reportedly was so Cam / Luke could become the leaders in the locker room.

The panthers saved cap by releasing Steve Smith. He was due $25M over 3 years by releasing him they saved themselves from future dead money.

18 minutes ago, qazsazsaz said:

We would still have to pay him in dead money so it hardly affected the cap.  Honestly, I think having SS would have been nice when KB went down. I don't care if we went 15-1, he would have been nice during the Super bow.

There's no telling if  the panthers go to the SB with Steve Smith as that would have changed the dynamics of the team plus he was going to retire after the 2014 season.

[pantherj]

16 minutes ago, qazsazsaz said:

I don't understand why people in the Huddle still think releasing steve smith was due to cap restraints.  It was not! It was because Dave wanted the younger guys like KB to mature.

http://overthecap.com/steve-smiths-contract-situation-carolina-panthers/

"If the team fails to pick up the option and release Smith by July 1 they will owe him a $3 million non-exercise fee. If they release him they will need to pay him $3 million in fully guaranteed base salary. So $3 million of this money is indeed protected for Smith. In addition I believe that Smith’s guarantee is of the no-offset variety meaning he can double dip if released. So at a minimum Smith will earn $4 million in the NFL this season and most likely a few dollars more. "

We would still have to pay him in dead money so it hardly affected the cap.  Honestly, I think having SS would have been nice when KB went down. I don't care if we went 15-1, he would have been nice during the Super bow.

Because cap restraints were obviously a factor.

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, pantherphan96 said:

if DG spends big $$ last offseason we have a much better chance of winning quickly but a much shorter window of opportunity considering that we would have to let go of KK, Trai/Norwell, etc in FA.

That logic is real worn especially given that we have 19 million in cap space and neither were signed in the offseason. Kalil actually took a pay cut for next year and we are projected to have close to 33 million free next year. We could have signed Norman long term for roughly 8 million in cap space in 2016 given the prorated signing bonus is the biggest cap cost. Future costs would have gone up but so will the cap and unless guaranteed there is little consequence if we drop him when he gets too expensive or restructure. No gettleman this time just tough guy stupidity.

[nctarheel0619]

26 minutes ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

And I mean this as harsh as possible...

You're a dumbass. Think about who Seattle let walk. From Brandon Browner to Superbowl MVP Malcolm Smith. They struggled at first but as any great team, they found a way to win. Even now with Chancellor and Thomas declining, Wagner and Wright and Sherman and Bennett and Clark are stepping up to compensate.

What excuse do we have? Wow... we lost one fugging diva. Boo hoo. If we can't recover from this then we're not a good team. It's practically the same team from the Superbowl. I don't want to hear about the losses. We still got a ton of veteran leadership on the team.

NO EXCUSES.

Jesus Christ.  Malcom Smith and Brandon Browner are superstars?  LOLZ.  I'm gonna end this back and forth quick.  

And you said Earl Thomas is declining?  I can't stop laughing.  

Do you even Football bro?  

Wow.  I can't believe you typed that and I'm the dumb ass?  Neat.  

[iamhubby1]

20 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

You either keep the tag on Norman or don't tag him early and sign vet corners to short term deals while you groom young guys...staying competitive while keeping cap flexibility.

 

I was drinking a ton of koolaid this offseason though...even with all the ish that happened.

 

I think Gman was willing to tag Josh, but he was hoping for a long term deal to soften the blow. He had a price he was willing to pay, but Josh would not go that low. I think Gman offered Josh top shelf money, and Josh wanted just a tad more. The only gripe I have is that Josh pretty much knew we were never going to match what he wanted.

 

IMO, Josh very well coulda shoulda let us know we were not going to get a deal done. He knew he needed to hit the open market to get what he wanted.

 

Whether intentional or not. Josh has a hand in how this year worked out.

[carolinajay]

25 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

That logic is real worn especially given that we have 19 million in cap space and neither were signed in the offseason

Gettleman negotiated with both and couldn't come to a agreement. Josh is gone and a long term deal with KK can still be had.

The 2011 contract spree is the reason why it is smart to stand your ground.

Who should he had signed after lifting the franchise tag on Josh?

[iamhubby1]

26 minutes ago, qazsazsaz said:

Do you actually think Josh Norman would not have signed the tag??? What would he have done instead? Sit out the season? Do you really think Norman is that dumb?

And truth be told, we don't fully know what happened between Dave and Norman's agent. Every agent is going to hardball for a higher deal.  That's what agents do. Dave clearly wasn't going to budge like most GMs would have, and that's also why KK is not signed yet.  Let's see if we still have KK next season. In all honestly, I think KK's production is down this year simply because the defense as a whole is playing poor.  He is still a great player and he knows he will command elite money like Norman. Every player is thinking about their own financial good. That's the most important thing. If he thinks he can hardball Dave and make money from a rescinded franchise tag, then he will do that. If you're in his situation, you would to. 

 

No, I don't think Josh would have sat out the season. He would show for every mandatory meeting and practice, play the game as hard as he could, and go about his business best he could.

 

One way or another Josh was going to get paid this year. But unless it was the tag, it was not going to be here. Gman could have kept the tag, and gotten a 3rd next year. But he also would have had 14mil less to play with. OR, he could rescind the tag, and get that 3rd this year. WITH that 14mil extra to play with.

 

I don't blame Josh for going for the money. No matter what the difference was between what Gman offered, and what he finally got, that extra money is still huge.

 

I just wish he would have told Gman that he was not going to settle for what we could offer. Let Gman make plans to replace him, instead of dragging it out, and leaving us in a bind. The whole thing could have been handled better as far as I am concerned.

 

 

[Cpt slay a ho]

Lol we're still arguing about whether removing the tag was a good ideal? It wasn't and the only reason is because we didn't have a back up plan other then throwing rookies and a player recovering from a broken leg to the wolves. There's only 2 coaches maybe 3 that could make this defense with the talent it has competitive, that should tell you something......looked at the top defenses in the league, now look at the talent they have on that side of the ball.....case closed


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[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, pantherphan96 said:

if DG spends big $$ last offseason we have a much better chance of winning quickly but a much shorter window of opportunity considering that we would have to let go of KK, Trai/Norwell, etc in FA.

It is not about spending big money. It is about spending it to maximize value. Leaving money on the table, letting top players leave because he does not like their price and he HATES TO NEGOTIATE, and over spending for mediocre or inconsequential talent is what Gettleman does. It is killing the future of the team as he eats through the talent capital he was given.

1 hour ago, pantherj said:

I don't care at all if we have to go through some cap hell for a major run at the SB with a loaded team. What in the hell have I been waiting for this entire gotdamn time?! A a loaded run at the gotdamn SB! What does fatass do? Dumps our best defender and brings in poo nothing! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!

 

You have to win a SB before you can start a dynasty. Nothing else matters if you want to be a champion.

1 hour ago, carolinajay said:

Spending big in free agency is a crap shoot. Outside of josh what star player did Gettleman drop?

Key players he dropped without improving their position Steve Smith , Brandon LaFell, Gary Barnidge, Jordan Gross via Steve Smith, Jared Allen, Peanut Tillman, Roman Harper, Jerricho Cotchery, Captain Munnerlyn, Bene Benwikere and DeAngelo Williams. Now all of them may not be pro bowl players, but they all were sent out the door and their spots have not been upgraded.

1 hour ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

Spend money for what? Vernon? Swearinger? Cromartie? Mario? Give me a break. Gettleman is trying to keep the core together. That said, guys like Short, Ealy, Remmers, Benjamin, Johnson, etc aren't playing like they deserve extensions. I rather extend Stewart, Love, and Norwell with their money.

This team lost Smitty and Hardy. We struggled to adjust but we found a way to succeed without them eventually. We can do it again without Norman too.

The core should consist of 6 offensive and 6 defensive players not in their rookie contracts. The rookie contracts players should fill those other 10 spots and become a core player when their contract is extended. Please list the core players. They should also be the top 12 salaries on the team.

1 hour ago, pantherj said:

Do you remember Steve Smith? Williams. He's been dumping stars to clear the cap. I thought everyone knew that.

He has been dumping starts to clear cap? Please. The cap was set up to clear itself when the players contracts expired. Run a dirty budget on those players and their contract values. You will see their cap savings were insignificant. All Gettleman was doing was adding dead cap space and over paying a mediocre player to replace them. Like Cotchery replacing Smith. That move saved the team 300k, and diminished the talent on the field. Was 300k worth removing the only consistent game breaking threat the Panthers had on offense outside QB? Gettleman still has not replaced that offensive game breaker every team needs.

1 hour ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

No, but I'm a fan. I want a trophy ASAP. Yet, winning teams like New England and Seattle lose 'stars' all the time. They manage however. Granted, those teams have stronger coaching but the principle is the same. Sometimes to prolong success, a star has to go. 

New England has their core and they keep them together for close to a decade. Now, they rent complimentary big play talent for a year or two, but those players are not the core players.

1 hour ago, carolinajay said:

This isn't last year's team. The front 4 was considered a strength coming into the season but it has failed to get any pressure. Plus the schedule was tougher this season than last. imo I do not think Josh wanted to be here.

The front four has never been a success since 2013. There has never been a sign anything more than the DTs could make an impact consistently. They were touted by the coaches and front office, but anyone who looked at the product knew that talk was hope.