Gil Brandt says Let KK Walk...

[Saca312]

19 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Bradbury is good for a rookie but not anything like a veteran would have been. He hasn't even been healthy all year let alone a shut down guy.  He got lucky he wasn't starting when Jones played us or he would have gotten used as well. Worley is pretty poor both covering and tackling. And he hasn't stayed healthy either. No Getleman was okay to draft them but needed vets to start and work the rookies into the mix to avoid the huge issues that plagued us in the beginning of the year which killed the season. We play zone largely because we can't play man and that is why we give up so many yards and the safeties look so bad. They don't know who to help because none of the corners are reliable. While we played zone last year, Norman was often locked on his receiver 1 on 1 with no help which allowed the safeties to cover elsewhere. Why do you think teams are using 4 or 5 receiver sets? Because our secondary is poor and we might have 2 decent cover guys. They figure at least 2 guys will be open on every play. Most times they are right.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-top-25-nfl-cornerbacks-this-season/

Quote

22. James Bradberry, Carolina Panthers, 80.4

The play of rookie James Bradberry has been impressive. A second-round rookie out of Samford, Bradberry has made the leap from the FCS to being the No. 1 corner for his new NFL team in his rookie season, and has started to look very good. Bradberry has shown the ability to make plays in both man and zone coverage, breaking up passes he has no right to challenge for, and hasn’t surrendered a catch longer than 28-yards all season. The Panthers’ defense has looked notably better the rookie is in the lineup.

Excuse me. If this isn't shutting down receivers, then I don't know what you're watching.

Bradberry is doing better than a lot of veteran corners out there. In fact, he's far superior than every rookie CB so far.

Sure, Worley has issues, but he's improving every week, and held Crabtree to around 33 yards when targeted.

Norman, have you not seen his play? He doesn't shadow the WR1 most of the time as a Redskin, and he's playing zone. Many times WR1s go up against other corners, and sometimes QBs aren't afraid to throw to them. Dez actually beat Norman a few times, and if it weren't for Dak's miscued throws, he would've been torched.

Odell, Green, all have had their way with him so far, and even Dez.

Sure, he's good, but no way near last year.

 

[heel31ok]

3 minutes ago, carolinajay said:

Why did it take getting the tag taking away for him to get serious about signing it?  Why not sign the tag and negotiate in good faith from the start instead of leaving the team in the dark for months?

He wanted to play here for the right price. $15M per year isn't a hometown discount it's market value.

Like who?

Ask him...but that is what he said...

[Saca312]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

This was his first negotiation. He used an agent he knew but not necessarily a knowledgeable experienced guy. His agent told him to talk tough and about the money and that the Panthers were going to cave because they couldn't afford to eat up all the cap the franchise tag would require. There was no consideration that the Panthers would seriously pull the franchise tag. How many times does that happen that isn't injury related to a probowl player?  It shocked Norman and he called Gettleman and tried to work things out but Gettleman told him it is too late you had your chance so now go elsewhere.  So Norman did and once he got into the league as such a high free agent the cost went up significantly . But he would have signed here for 12 million and a significant signing bonus. That is 2 million more than was reportedly being offered by the Panthers. At least that is how this old mind remembers it.........I might have a few numbers slightly off.

Nah. Don't think Norman ever said what he was looking for.

Gettleman was willing to sign norman for 11 mil from this article:

http://www.espn.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/20477/the-philosophy-of-panthers-gm-and-demands-of-josh-norman-never-meshed

[carolinajay]

8 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

This was his first negotiation. He used an agent he knew but not necessarily a knowledgeable experienced guy. His agent told him to talk tough and about the money and that the Panthers were going to cave because they couldn't afford to eat up all the cap the franchise tag would require. There was no consideration that the Panthers would seriously pull the franchise tag. How many times does that happen that isn't injury related to a probowl player?  It shocked Norman and he called Gettleman and tried to work things out but Gettleman told him it is too late you had your chance so now go elsewhere.  So Norman did and once he got into the league as such a high free agent the cost went up significantly . But he would have signed here for 12 million and a significant signing bonus. That is 2 million more than was reportedly being offered by the Panthers. At least that is how this old mind remembers it.........I might have a few numbers slightly off.

Look at it from Norman's perspective. 28 year old CB coming off his best season, he wanted a big contract and he earned one.

Gettleman said that once it became clear (a week before the draft) that a long term deal wasn't going to happen he pulled the tag.

The agent is a extension of the player so that falls unto Josh that his agent was incompetent in negotiations.

[heel31ok]

10 minutes ago, carolinajay said:

What truth?

Re -read if u wish...

[SOJA]

I honestly think Gettleman would have done 12 a year. Josh wanted 16 a year. They weren't reaching an agreement. Josh was going to hold out through training camp. This is reality. 

Josh is gone and we got a great rookie in Bradberry for a fraction of the cost. 

 

If this were New England people would be slobbering over Darth Hoodie and has fiscal forte, but you folks want Hurney 2.0

[carolinajay]

9 minutes ago, heel31ok said:

Ask him...but that is what he said...

He said it after the fact. He had a media run after the season and I don't remember him saying that.

[outlaw4]

2 hours ago, Dick the Butcher said:

Too many Huddle GMs want to "win now."

NFL success is probability (and statistics to a lesser degree) math.  Put yourself in the best position to battle year after year, because it takes everything to go your way in order to win these games.  You can't put the team in the best position to win over the long run if you're being short sighted about old, loud CBs and lazy-eyed DTs.

GMan is working on securing a healthy, long-lasting future.  The hurt has come because Shula got the jump on the rest of the NFL last year and Rivera has been terrible at righting the ship in rough waters this year.

We already had a GM that was willing to spend every dime to keep players, Marty Hurney. Yes, he should get credit for the pieces that are still on the roster today but he should also get blame for tying our hands for multiple seasons with cap issues.

You look at the more recent Super Bowl champs and many of them had great talent on the cheap. Problem is that in the end, you'll have to start paying those guys fair value or in many cases, much more. It's a difficult balancing act on deciding who stays and who you'll risk letting them walk and hope a new guy can fill in. Norman is the key example and if Bradberry maintains his current projection, we end up being better off with a younger player and the extra money to start spending.

Now that's the key. In the past, Gettleman couldn't spend much because of past mistakes and still nabbed some nice pieces anyways. There has been plenty of grousing of not being that active the prior offseason although considering all the injuries this season, I just don't believe there was enough that could've been done to patch up every single area without mortgaging our future. For certain I am one to say that we have to be more active this coming offseason. Unlike some other teams, we're set up to take advantage. If not, then you can bet I will question our overall strategy. 

[carolinajay]

9 minutes ago, heel31ok said:

Re -read if u wish...

I didn't see any truth the first time I read it.

[heel31ok]

1 minute ago, carolinajay said:

I didn't see any truth the first time I read it.

Yes...I know...

[CRA]

12 minutes ago, carolinajay said:

Look at it from Norman's perspective. 28 year old CB coming off his best season, he wanted a big contract and he earned one.

Gettleman said that once it became clear (a week before the draft) that a long term deal wasn't going to happen he pulled the tag.

The agent is a extension of the player so that falls unto Josh that his agent was incompetent in negotiations.

realistically, a good agent probably doesn't get a deal done with Gettlemen for Josh (not saying Josh's guy was good).  But big money was simply there to be had....and an agent got it for him. 

[Pimpdaddy]

3 hours ago, pantherj said:

KK is super replaceable. Norman was not. Gettleman's brain is backwards, so he'll probably pay KK.

Oh sht if that happens..he godda come cheap.

 

[t96]

1 hour ago, The_Rainmaker said:

 

We already tried the tag scenario which didn't work out, Carolina doesn't need the drama again. Panthers have enough cap space to sign KK & Star to extensions, defense will be better next season with secondary gaining experience & it will take that extra pass rusher to take the defense to a elite level. 

If you want to win the SB your gonna have to make to some investmenst, as DG stated he doens't like developing talent for other teams. 

There's a big difference between a KK tag scenario and a Josh tag scenario. Josh was never in our long term plans. He was never going to get an extension here, so the tag would've literally been a 1 year rental. With KK it could be used to get a longer look at him to make sure we'd want to pay him. Plus Josh was being a distraction. They would've been happy to keep him on the tag if he had signed it and actually showed he wanted to be here without a distraction. I don't know KK's thoughts but I doubt he'd respond the same way as Josh.

 

You don't win Super Bowls by overpaying players. If KK's asking price is unreasonable we won't keep him, and we'll let some dumb team overpay him.

[panthers55]

12 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-top-25-nfl-cornerbacks-this-season/

Excuse me. If this isn't shutting down receivers, then I don't know what you're watching.

Bradberry is doing better than a lot of veteran corners out there. In fact, he's far superior than every rookie CB so far.

Sure, Worley has issues, but he's improving every week, and held Crabtree to around 33 yards when targeted.

Norman, have you not seen his play? He doesn't shadow the WR1 most of the time as a Redskin, and he's playing zone. Many times WR1s go up against other corners, and sometimes QBs aren't afraid to throw to them. Dez actually beat Norman a few times, and if it weren't for Dak's miscued throws, he would've been torched.

Odell, Green, all have had their way with him so far, and even Dez.

Sure, he's good, but no way near last year.

 

So if Bradbury hadn't surrender a pass longer than 28 yards it could means he plays off receivers and let's them catch the ball shorter to avoid the big play. Smart but a long way from shut down.  Plus we needed Bradbury to replace Peanut not Norman. 

Norman isn't playing well because he doesn't have guys like Thomas Davis there to mentor him and keep him focused.  Norman is a great talent but he is very emotional and has to be managed.  That doesn't happen in Washington.