By several measures, Panthers 2017 rookie class worst in NFL

[dksmith17]

42 minutes ago, The Natural said:

I think except for a small (very vocal) minority most people can look back and realize Dave Gettleman was an AWFUL gm.

that is ridiculous

He took over a team in cap hell, since arriving we have made POs 4 of 5 seasons, went 15-1 and SB in year 3, cap is manageable after year 5 and we still have our big franchise pieces.

What more do you want from a GM?

 

 

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, dksmith17 said:

that is ridiculous

He took over a team in cap hell, since arriving we have made POs 4 of 5 seasons, went 15-1 and SB in year 3, cap is manageable after year 5 and we still have our big franchise pieces.

What more do you want from a GM?

 

 

Idk, maybe to at least hit on the first round picks? It's not hard to manage the cap if you stick with bargain bin FA's. Gettleman won with Hurneys core. After that 2015 season the wheels really started coming off and he had one of the all time worst off-seasons of any GM ever.

[Toomers]

10 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Idk, maybe to at least hit on the first round picks? It's not hard to manage the cap if you stick with bargain bin FA's. Gettleman won with Hurneys core. After that 2015 season the wheels really started coming off and he had one of the all time worst off-seasons of any GM ever.

  I’d rather win more than any other time in team history than “hit” on every first round pick. But don’t let facts get in the way of ignorance. 

[Manther]

20 hours ago, KB_fan said:

Don't get me wrong.  I love CMC.  And I think Moton, Samuel, Hall and Elder might be able to help us this year....

But dang with all the injuries to an already small draft class, giving away Butker, not being able to really use Moton & Armah last year...... the Panthers 2017 draft class was pretty bad.  2016 and 2015 were also lower than average in terms of rookie impact on the roster.

I've posted a pretty long twitter thread with some data.  Will try to post the tables and graphs here tomorrow along with more commentary, but it's gotten too late here and I'm falling asleep at the keyboard....

Click on the tweet to follow the whole thread....

Mac was a good solid choice and he was a fundamental part of the O last year.

In retrospect, Dalvin Cook, Alvin Kamara, and Kareem Hunt were on the board when we took Samuel.  Samuel's play was not great last year, even when healthy.  There were flashes and mis-steps.  Hopefully he steps up this year.

Losing Butker was probably a mistake, he did nearly as well as Gano for much less.  This I attribute to the GM transition.

Corn Elder, is just depth at corner, probably not a starter anytime soon. 

Hall was hurt so don't know what to expect from him

Armah is looking good.

I still think it was a better draft than 16.

 

[Manther]

7 hours ago, grimesgoat said:

Looking back - the 2016 draft was mediocre at best.  But frankly, after 15-1, there wasn't much room for a bunch of new starters. 

Butler was picked in case we lost Short and Edwards/Cole were done.

Letting Norman walk vs. paying him 15m was a calculated gamble.  We play zone and had confidence in Benewikere stepping in.  Gman probably felt he could get someone solid in the 2nd or 3rd (which he did) that could hold down a zone corner spot.  The extra cap allowed us to extend Oher, and rollover about 13m, which was ultimately used to pay Turner and Short. 

Most of our starters in 2015 were the same in 2016.  The following chart shows the exceptions and his replacement:

Punter: Nortman (Lee)

DE: Allen (Ealy)

WR: Crotchery (KB)

S: Harper (Boston)

CB: Robert McClain (Benewikere)

CB: Norman (Bradberry)

Arguably, with the exception of Norman, every single starter was replaced by a better guy.  We didn't need to draft a ton of guys all over the roster, just depth on the dline and a solid zone corner.  That is exactly what we got.  We also got a mediocre corner that we turned into Torrey Smith and a few pieces that have helped out here and there (Byrd and Cash).  Its not the best draft - but you have to remember the context.

Bottom line is - We got what we needed to repeat in 2016 - we just got destroyed by injuries and losing close games.

 

 

I believe the stick a fork in it attitude was exactly the way DG was thinking...and it appears to be at least partly wrong.    We could have drafted Tyreek Hill, Michael Thomas,  Jordan Howard, or Kevin Byard.  We didn't, and have very little to show from that draft class. 

 

 

[Manther]

16 hours ago, dksmith17 said:

that is ridiculous

He took over a team in cap hell, since arriving we have made POs 4 of 5 seasons, went 15-1 and SB in year 3, cap is manageable after year 5 and we still have our big franchise pieces.

What more do you want from a GM?

Yes he got us out of cap hell, essentially playing hatchet and searching for value.  We needed it, and he played the bad guy/smart manager well.  Hurney had his bad picks, but I'd say he had a better eye than DG....Butler was one hogmollie to many.

[KB_fan]

20 hours ago, My Goodness My Guinness said:

I get we are trying to be all scientific and smarts, but this dumb. "Worst in NFL"? At what? Starts? Does that make players good or bad? CMC, Samuel, Armah, Moton, and the possibility of Hall? How is that the worst class in the NFL?

Agree the thread title was attention grabbing and misleading.  Worst not in quality but by contribution to the roster / starts/ snaps played.

[dksmith17]

O_o

@DavidGlennShow 2m2 minutes ago

More

Szoke: A lot is made of the impressive careers Ryan Kalil, Thomas Davis and Julius Peppers as they wind down, but I think the past two classes have developed well in practice.

@DavidGlennShow 1m1 minute ago

More

Szoke: I talked to Marty Hurney yesterday about the last two draft classes, and the Panthers feel really good about the young talent on the roster.

[electro's horse]

cmc is...

/checks notes

bad!

[Carl Spackler]

Gettleman wasn't an awful GM but he sucked at drafting

[PleaseCutStewart]

Judging last year's draft class based on their rookie season alone is worthless. Get back to me after their 3rd season...

Now, if you want to talk about bad draft classes of the past decade, look at our 2010 draft (outside of Hardy), 2011 draft (outside of Cam), and likely our 2016 draft (unless Butler or Bradberry step up). That 2011 draft was truly awful - we literally got zero value from everyone else besides Cam. Pretty sure none of them are in the league now...

[PleaseCutStewart]

On 8/15/2018 at 2:15 PM, The Natural said:

I think except for a small (very vocal) minority most people can look back and realize Dave Gettleman was an AWFUL gm.

Not really. I agree that he was terrible with his drafts, but he did a good job of managing the salary cap (which was way in the red when we fired Hurney) and finding bargain bin players who played very well in our system.

In all honesty, if he didn't have the Norman fiasco and didn't suck at drafting for us, he would have been great while he was here. Too bad his pride got in the way of giving the franchise tag to Norman and he didn't leave somebody else in charge of drafting...

[Cat]

So glad Gentlemen is gone. His bad drafting will effect this team for a while. 

[Cat]

On 8/15/2018 at 3:04 PM, dksmith17 said:

that is ridiculous

He took over a team in cap hell, since arriving we have made POs 4 of 5 seasons, went 15-1 and SB in year 3, cap is manageable after year 5 and we still have our big franchise pieces.

What more do you want from a GM?

 

 

Solid drafting, quality free agent signings and professional dealings with personnel. Those playoff appearances had very little to do with players Gentlemen brought in. I'm not saying they were all non factors, I'm saying the majority of the top players were not Gentlemen's doing. 

But this has all been said many times b4.