By several measures, Panthers 2017 rookie class worst in NFL

[KB_fan]

6 hours ago, PleaseCutStewart said:

Judging last year's draft class based on their rookie season alone is worthless. Get back to me after their 3rd season...

I'm not judging the overall success of the class. Agree that can only be done over time!!!!

All this was about was to say Panthers basically got less out of their rookies last year than any other team. End of story. But I realize the way I titled and presented this thread in a very piecemeal fashion, that wasn't obvious. Sorry for being unclear.

[Toomers]

1 hour ago, Cat said:

Solid drafting, quality free agent signings and professional dealings with personnel. Those playoff appearances had very little to do with players Gentlemen brought in. I'm not saying they were all non factors, I'm saying the majority of the top players were not Gentlemen's doing. 

But this has all been said many times b4.

  And it was just as wrong every one of the many times it was said before. How come Hurney couldn’t win with those “top” players. Who should get credit for the best stretch in team history? The GM who handed him a team that had went 23-41 in the previous 4 seasons and was in salary cap hell(to be kind)? Or the one that went 51-28-1 with 4 playoff appearances in the next five years. 

[Cat]

2 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  And it was just as wrong every one of the many times it was said before. How come Hurney couldn’t win with those “top” players. Who should get credit for the best stretch in team history? The GM who handed him a team that had went 23-41 in the previous 4 seasons and was in salary cap hell(to be kind)? Or the one that went 51-28-1 with 4 playoff appearances in the next five years. 

Why are you arguing about Hurney? This is about Gettleman sucking, which he did. 

[Toomers]

25 minutes ago, Cat said:

Why are you arguing about Hurney? This is about Gettleman sucking, which he did. 

 Because you gave any credit for Gettleman’s accomplishments to Hurney? Your words. Who gets credit for the best stretch out n team history? Were the 4 All-Pro’s he drafted in his first 3 drafts not up to par? Am I supposed to just accept it “because you said so”?

  

[MHS831]

I get what you are saying and I follow the logic, but year one is not much of an indicator.  Good teams' lineups are hard to crack into.  If Moton, Samuel, and someone like Elder step up--brilliant class.

[Manther]

6 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

Gettleman was overrated and people are finally coming around to that. Yeah he found some decent bargain bin free agents and drafted some decent glue players but he also way overpaid for Matt Kalil and never drafted a star (besides in name only).

I wouldn't go that far.  DG drafted Kawann Short, Christian McCaffrey, Devin Funchess, Shaq Thompson, Star Lotulelei, Daryl Williams, David Mayo, Trai Turner, Curtis Samuel, Taylor Moton, Daeshon Hall, A. J. Klein and Cameron Artis-Payne.

He did that while getting us out of cap hell.  He did what we brought him here to do.  He made his mistakes, but he wasn't a total bust.

I didn't mention Kelvin Benjamin because I'm still mad at him.

[FugAllY'all]

Evaluating draft classes after the first year is already a dumb exercise, and it's even dumber when half the class barely played due to injury. To go the other way, the Panther's 2014 draft was maybe our best ever if you go by first year contribution. Now Trai is the last man standing. 

 

Going into 2018: McCaffrey, Armah, and Moton will all be starters on our team. Including Harrison Butker, that's 4/7 picks starting in year 2. Samuel may very well play his way into the starting lineup. Elder and Hall are the only two who might not make the roster, but 5/7 starters after one year would be a great draft class.

[luke nukem]

On 8/15/2018 at 8:53 AM, Pup McBarky said:

 

And then you have the situations like Butler and Shaq...playing behind all-pros. Do you pass up on those picks because you've got all-pros at those positions? GMs debate this still. It comes back to BPA or picking for need. BPA is the simpler prospect (if either could be described as "simple") while picking for need is risky to say the least.

All us armchair GMs think we're smart, but that ain't an easy job at all.

Dave saying that he stuck to BPA was the biggiest lie he ever told us as the GM. 2016 draft all but confirms that. I just hated us drafting guys like Sanchez and Elder in the 5th, both of those guys would have gone undrafted if it wasn't for Dave.

[Shocker]

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 9:54 PM, KB_fan said:

Don't get me wrong.  I love CMC.  And I think Moton, Samuel, Hall and Elder might be able to help us this year....

But dang with all the injuries to an already small draft class, giving away Butker, not being able to really use Moton & Armah last year...... the Panthers 2017 draft class was pretty bad.  2016 and 2015 were also lower than average in terms of rookie impact on the roster.

I've posted a pretty long twitter thread with some data.  Will try to post the tables and graphs here tomorrow along with more commentary, but it's gotten too late here and I'm falling asleep at the keyboard....

Click on the tweet to follow the whole thread....

 

 

 

I mean...it was 1 year ago.  Kinda early to kill the class.  Also, the REALLY good ones get a 50% hit rate on all picks.  CMC is beast as well.  Look at Cleveland, outside of Joe Thomas they have like almost never hit on their first rounders.  Amazing.

[KB_fan]

11 minutes ago, Shocker said:

I mean...it was 1 year ago.  Kinda early to kill the class.  Also, the REALLY good ones get a 50% hit rate on all picks.  CMC is beast as well.  Look at Cleveland, outside of Joe Thomas they have like almost never hit on their first rounders.  Amazing.

Honestly not trying to "kill" the 2017 or declare it a bust. I agree with everyone it's too early for that and there's still promising talent (Samuel, Moton, Armah) who should contribute this year.

I was just talking about the rookies contribution last year. It was the lowest in 7 years for the Panthers, and 2015 and 2016 was low too.  It may not mean much. It's too early to tell. But our depth at a lot of positions prior to the 2018 draft was very thin and unproven. A strong contribution from the 2018 rookies early can help refresh the roster talent.

[Ace_Aladdin]

11 hours ago, Manther said:

I wouldn't go that far.  DG drafted Kawann Short, Christian McCaffrey, Devin Funchess, Shaq Thompson, Star Lotulelei, Daryl Williams, David Mayo, Trai Turner, Curtis Samuel, Taylor Moton, Daeshon Hall, A. J. Klein and Cameron Artis-Payne.

He did that while getting us out of cap hell.  He did what we brought him here to do.  He made his mistakes, but he wasn't a total bust.

I didn't mention Kelvin Benjamin because I'm still mad at him.

Hurney 2.0  should be better learning from his mistakes and DGs.

[cookinbrak]

CMC, Samuels, Moton, Armah, Elder all did work tonight.

[KB_fan]

10 minutes ago, cookinbrak said:

CMC, Samuels, Moton, Armah, Elder all did work tonight.

Yup. They sure did. Thrilled to see it.

As I've said repeatedly, the lack of contribution in 2017 may not matter in the long run as long as the rookies do eventually develop and contribute.

[Zithers]

Odd to say that our class is so bad when it's only been one year. Harrison Butker was a great pick but I can't complain about Gano. He has been a top five kicker since we brought him here outside of the '16 season. Leads NFL in touchbacks every year and is accurate. Armah will get an expanded role it looks like this year. Corn Elder is healthy and is on the bubble according to Voth but is a strong candidate as a Captain replacement should he make the team and get more coaching. Hall was hurt all last year too. CMC is obviously a beast and will be utilized better by Norv hopefully. Curtis Samuel was also hurt all last year and is lighting it up on backups in the preseason at least... Not sure how you can fault Gettleman for three guys getting hurt when they weren't injury-prone in college.

Dumb thread being used to stir up anti-Gettleman garbage.