Buying land without an agent

[PhillyB]

I'm about eight months into preproduction on a second film. As part of the process I'm buying a tract of land, probably fifteen or so acres in Virginia, that I'll use to build an exterior film set. Among other things the land will feature a 30x50' barn/sound stage (built to code), a small french-style cobblestone house (not to code), and a 1:1 replica of a crashed B-17 bomber.

Do I need a buyer's agent to purchase the land? Is it cheaper to go without one? I will be paying cash, so there won't be a mortgage issue to clog it up. Am I essentially just paying cash for title?

No need for perk tests or any of that nonsense. I'm going to use the land, clear about six acres, build a barn and a film set, and sell it in a year.

Thoughts?

[Paa Langfart]

You need to check with the county authorities on the zoning of the property and what uses are permitted.  Make sure you have a clean/clear title - your lawyer ( yes you need a lawyer ) should determine if the title is clear and may be able to advise you on the above.  Get title insurance.  Small cost could prove to be a huge headache saver later on.  Will post other thoughts as I have them and get time.  But you need a closing lawyer .

[Paa Langfart]

By the way - 15 acres isn't that large a tract of land.  Specially if you clear a good chunk of it.  Don't piss off your neighbors or they could make life miserable for you by doing a number of red necky things such as riding 4 wheelers around your property when youre trying to film or firing their weapons at inopportune times or just complaining to the county about something youre doing.

In my county in NC I was only able to build a barn without getting a permit by getting a farm id number.  If you're going to have power run to the property and have water I would assume they will make you put in a septic system if you don't have to hook up to the county system.  That means it will have to perk.  I am assuming you are not in a municipality but out in the boonies?

[Paa Langfart]

To answer your original question, unless there is a law in VA requiring a buyers agent, as long as you do your homework on the tract and have a competent RE attorney you shouldn't need a buyers agent.  Just make sure you have a clean title and aren't buying a former hazardous waste site or something and that the county will let you do what you want to do.

[Anybodyhome]

Know which county? I may know a few folks (lawyers, county commissioners, etc.) since I lived in SW VA for about 13 years

[motocross_cat]

In my opinion if you have the money like that I would pay someone to do the leg work for you.  No need to put added stress where you dont have to.

Least that's how I would roll.

[GeorgeHanson]

6 hours ago, PhillyB said:

I'm about eight months into preproduction on a second film. As part of the process I'm buying a tract of land, probably fifteen or so acres in Virginia, that I'll use to build an exterior film set. Among other things the land will feature a 30x50' barn/sound stage (built to code), a small french-style cobblestone house (not to code), and a 1:1 replica of a crashed B-17 bomber.

Do I need a buyer's agent to purchase the land? Is it cheaper to go without one? I will be paying cash, so there won't be a mortgage issue to clog it up. Am I essentially just paying cash for title?

No need for perk tests or any of that nonsense. I'm going to use the land, clear about six acres, build a barn and a film set, and sell it in a year.

Thoughts?

Use a broker....it is in your best interest to do so.  You will pay a bit extra by doing so and odds are low there will be anything significant that gums up the deal, but, they can save you from so many potentially gigantic transactional and financial potholes it really is cheap insurance.  JMO.

[PhillyB]

i'm looking in charlotte county, somewhere north of south boston. none of the buildings will be residential - the barn will have power but not water, so no perk test needed. it's out in the boonies and i can't imagine there being any discernible noise on the property outside of a chainsaw and maybe a generator at various points of the construction phase - there's at least a thousand feet of dense pine forest between me and the nearest neighbor.

here is satellite footage of the propose property and a mock-up of what it'll look like when i'm done with it for the year (B-17 placed for set blocking and scale)

 

poorly scaled side-by-sides there but you get the picture - the first one is the property now, the second one is a mockup of how it'll look cleared and sculpted for the set, which is eastern france in 1944. southernmost clearing gets the barn (red rectangle) and northernmost clearing gets the little farmhouse as a set piece (brown rectangle) with the B-17 crash built at the edge of the wooded area, which is at the bottom of a slight grade into a lower-lying plain in hardwood with a small creek.

i am putting a lot of skin in the game by making this purchase and development, and even saving a few hundred bucks in the process is a big deal to me.

[Cary Kollins]

This sounds badass

[Paa Langfart]

Make sure that you are buying the timber rights to the property.   I found your property online and see that it has a new survey - that is good as a survey of a tract that size would cost you a couple thousand dollars easily.  Make sure before you buy it the owner or real estate agent walks the property with you and shows you the corners and pins.  Take a can of spray paint and some of that fluorescent tape from lowes and mark your corners well.  When it is time to sell your buyer will want to know where the corners are and it is very easy to lose them. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/timber+right     What sort of timber is on the property size wise ?  Have you thought of marketing it ?  You may be able to make several thousand dollars on the timber even if it is for pulpwood or chip and saw.  Chances are though you'll need to cut at least 10 acres to get any interest.  I would talk to the local VA state forest service people, tell them what you are planning on doing and get their FREE input first . If you hire a forester to cruise the site and give you an estimate of the timber worth it will cost a few hundred bucks.  Hiring a forester to oversee the cutting and watch out for your interests usually costs about 15% of the timbers value, but having a forester will actually increase what you can get out of the timber by an average of 50% on small tracts like yours.    There are laws in some states which prohibit cutting and clearing near stream sides in order to preserve water quality.  Regardless of what you do I hope you plan on some sort of forest restoration prior to moving on from the place.  

[Bronn]

For tax purposes, I would be strategic with how the lot is zoned. I might have skimmed over that part, but if you can get it zoned something less than residential or whatever you have planned, it'll cost less when property tax is due. I'd try to sell it as agricultural with plans on re purposing post-production.

I think that a lot of your questions could be answered at the county level. I'd dial them up and ask some generic questions without giving them a lot of specific info on the property itself.

You're already more experienced in real estate than I am, IIRC from your posting history. But, be sure to be familiar with the structural code of that county and don't give them any reason to be able to shut you down.

The only other thing I thought of while skimming is that for the 30x50 to pass fire code, you might have to have water on site, or at least a lot of fire suppression backup, especially with a heavily wooded parcel.

[Anybodyhome]

http://www.charlotteva.com/zoning.htm

Will likely need a Conditional Use Permit to do the filming and any construction could probably be included.

Dan Witt: Zoning Administrator and County Administrator; ph: 434-542-5117; [email protected]

Beverly Fitz: Charlotte County Chamber of Commerce; ph: 434-568-0174

 

[Khyber53]

The only few things I would add that haven't been mentioned so far are:

1) As soon as the property is purchased, walk the land and put out Posted:  No Trespassing and Posted: No Hunting. Make sure the previous owners haven't leased hunting rights to the property (or those could be tricky if filming in the wrong seasons). Put the signs all along the perimeter of the area and inside the boundaries about 50 yards deep, again. 

2) Insure the heck out the area -- liability (with all of the clearing, construction and filming to be done), as well as fire and natural disaster insurance as one wildfire or hurricane hit (it does happen, Hugo levelled thousands and thousands of acres of timber in NC, VA and WV three decades ago) could ruin the property for your filming purposes. 

3) Make sure all the taxes have been paid on the property over the years and that the tract is actually on the books. Modern GIS setups are allowing rural mountain counties to find tracts of land that are basically unclaimed legally, even though they have changed hands many times in the past. 

4) Access into and out of the property looks, well, primitive. Getting a good sized truck in there, to haul building supplies, etc. is going to require some grading and gravel most likely. This will also prevent you from getting stuck there after a big rain event. You may be able to trade the timber to a logging company in exchange for a graded and graveled road.

Good luck with it!

[Paa Langfart]

2 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

You may be able to trade the timber to a logging company in exchange for a graded and graveled road.

Good advice on the road.  When I bought my place some 20 years ago, putting in a 850 foot long  20 foot wide  road -( clearing and bringing in fill dirt,  no gravel ) cost about $4000.   Probably sounds like I am being condescending here, but If you go this route, make sure EVERYTHING is in a written contract and the timber cutters grade and gravel the road AFTER cutting and removing the timber.  Loggers can be notoriously shady characters and often take advantage of old people and uninformed outsiders.  This is how having a consulting forester working for YOUR interests pays for itself.

 

In lieu of the signs Kyber mentions above, you can also ( cheaper and easier )- this is what I do, and just put the signs on the property corners here in NC

Quote

Landowners may post their property by any of the following methods:

• Using an aluminum or purple color paint, paint a vertical line at least 2 inches in width and at least 8 inches in length, no less than 3 feet and not more than 6 feet from the ground or normal water surface and visible when approaching the property.
• Signs that specifically prohibit hunting, fishing, or trespassing on the property. https://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/privateproperty/