How early would you take a QB?

[JARROD]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I could say the same, you are missing my point. This year is a crap year for QBs. Russell Wilson isn’t going to drop to the 3rd and finding Brady and Romo or even Cousins/Prescott is near impossible. It’s much less than a 10% hit, more like a 3% hit rate.

My point is that picking a QB in the 3rd in a bad draft class is a waste of a pick when there will clearly be many really good trench guys in the 3rd+ and likely 0 good QBs. Next year is supposed to be a much better QB class, so I’d rather pick one then and based on Cam this year maybe even use our 1st next year. I just don’t see the point is burning a 3rd on a QB on a team with many holes. It’s bad draft strategy unless Norv believes that Grier is going to be Romo then sure, I’ll assume he’s not. 

Will Grier at least is rated 28th best prospect on the 50 list, Daniel Jones is not.

we are not drafting Cams replacement this year and Drafting a guy like Daniel Jones at anything higher than a 3rd round pick is just reaching like hell.

i wouldn’t be surprised if he is in the 3rd round sitting there. Jimmy Clausen might have been a 3rd round pick if not for Hurney— and he was touted as the “best in the draft” by many—- teams knew the truth.

[panthers55]

20 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I could say the same, you are missing my point. This year is a crap year for QBs. Russell Wilson isn’t going to drop to the 3rd and finding Brady and Romo or even Cousins/Prescott is near impossible. It’s much less than a 10% hit, more like a 3% hit rate.

My point is that picking a QB in the 3rd in a bad draft class is a waste of a pick when there will clearly be many really good trench guys in the 3rd+ and likely 0 good QBs. Next year is supposed to be a much better QB class, so I’d rather pick one then and based on Cam this year maybe even use our 1st next year. I just don’t see the point is burning a 3rd on a QB on a team with many holes. It’s bad draft strategy unless Norv believes that Grier is going to be Romo then sure, I’ll assume he’s not. 

I don't miss your point, I don't agree that one year is so great and one sucks unless you are talking the top 6 or 7 guys. Remember we aren't drafting a quarterback in the first round or even the second or third unless we get a top tier guy. I am talking about middle to.late rounds and I would offer that the guys who you could get in round 4 this year won't be any better or worse than the guys you could get in the 4th round next year.  Because maybe you can get the 8th ranked guy this year and next year by the 4th round they might be the 15th ranked guy. Most pundits ranking classes focus on the top half dozen guys which aren't what we are talking about. How high was Brady ranked when he came out? How about Kurt Warner or other low drafted guys. Perhaps the difference is you think the pundits ratings matter while I think every year there are gems to be had. You just have to find them. Or I said keep swinging for the fences until you hit one. 

[JARROD]

24 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Brady was draft 19 years ago. Kurt Warner was 25 years ago. Romo was 16 years ago. Can we stop using them as reasons to draft a 3rd+ round QB and acting like it’ll be one of those guys? Wilson was a 3rd rounder in a better QB class. When a class is better, guys who might have been 1st or 2nd round QBs show up in the 3rd or even 4th. Your example is wrong because you miss the point of position depth. When a position isn’t deep, players get reached for, so a QB drafted in next year’s 4th round will be better than a QB drafted in the 4th. Not every team needs a QB and if you know good ones will drop, you don’t reach so in 2012 with a deeper class Wilson goes in the 3rd. In 2013, he’s probably going 2nd, maybe even squeaks into the 1st because all you had was EJ Manuel and Geno Smith. 3rd round QB in 2012 was the 6th QB and was the 3rd QB in 2013, but Wilson was a much better prospect than Mike Glennon. 

Exactly, in quarterback stacked classes or any position stacked really, better players get pushed down as they are compared to better contemporaries.

in bad draft classes like this guys that would have been 3rd round picks are all of a sudden being discussed in the 1st round.

wilson in 2013 would definitely have been drafted a lot higher than 2012. Great example. EJ Manuel and Geno would themselves have been taken whole rounds later at least in stronger classes.

 

[JARROD]

For record and just for GP I watched Daniel Jones highlights and read up on him.  I like his highlights and he may grow into something in the NFL. I would have no problem drafting what I saw with our comp 3rd pick. 

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

Brady was draft 19 years ago. Kurt Warner was 25 years ago. Romo was 16 years ago. Can we stop using them as reasons to draft a 3rd+ round QB and acting like it’ll be one of those guys? Wilson was a 3rd rounder in a better QB class. When a class is better, guys who might have been 1st or 2nd round QBs show up in the 3rd or even 4th. Your example is wrong because you miss the point of position depth. When a position isn’t deep, players get reached for, so a QB drafted in next year’s 4th round will be better than a QB drafted in the 4th. Not every team needs a QB and if you know good ones will drop, you don’t reach so in 2012 with a deeper class Wilson goes in the 3rd. In 2013, he’s probably going 2nd, maybe even squeaks into the 1st because all you had was EJ Manuel and Geno Smith. 3rd round QB in 2012 was the 6th QB and was the 3rd QB in 2013, but Wilson was a much better prospect than Mike Glennon. 

You are right we have different definitions of positional depth and the importance of pundit evaluations. . If you draft only 11 quarterbacks in all of 2012 you don't have depth in quantity. If you draft the 6th best quarterback in the 3rd round is it because you are not reaching or is it that there are several guys about equal with no standouts  so no one is in a hurry to draft them because it doesn't matter if you wait or not you get the same result.  So in 2011 when 6 are taken in the first round is that a limited class and desperation or valuing them highly and getting them before someone else does? And does the number you pick in 2012 get affected because more teams got their guy in 2011 and wouldn't do as I suggest and pick again?

So this year if edge rushers,who are highly valued by pundits, have 9 drafted in the first 20 picks and you see a run because everyone wants a tier one or two guy, your theory would be teams are reaching right? Or like in 2011 are they jumping who they want to ensure a good pick. And if in next year's draft they pick fewer early and wait, does that draft have better positional depth if the 10th rated Edge rusher goes in the third while this year it goes in the first?  And is the 10th rater rusher next year better than the 16 rated Edge rusher you could get with a third rounder this year. 

Positions depth can be quantity or quality or rarely sometimes both. And given how many busts occur up and down the draft should we be neglecting our needs putting all our eggs in next year versus getting a QB this year and maybe next year as well to increase the chances we get who we want which is my point.

[Zorbac]

Round 7

[micnificent28]

round 3. Tyree Jackson or jared stidham from auburn...

[MHS831]

23 hours ago, Palmetto said:

Late 3rd early 4th maybe 

Tyree Jackson

Tools are there, but accuracy was terrible.   A project for sure.

[RumHam]

If for some reason Murray fell to us, i'd snag him. Otherwise a third for Will Grier would be welcome.

[Palmetto]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Tools are there, but accuracy was terrible.   A project for sure.

I would prefer to grab a QB later but the later the round the worse the Qb most of the time

 

[JARROD]

12 hours ago, RIAnBOW said:

Wow, you're an angry one for sure.

Question, for you, what's the worst case scenario (in your opinion) as it goes to Cam and his comeback from a 2nd shoulder surgery, and his long-term future with the Panthers?  Please be specific....put your thinking cap on.

Many quarterbacks have injuries, come back and have to have scar tissue or others removed through scope. It’s common. 

Worst case is a backup plan, and Kyle Allen played good enough to do that. Cam would have to be clearly finished to think about drafting a first round replacement.

realistically Cam has 8-10 years left. He’s big strong and has great work ethic, and now he’s Vegan so there goes inflammation. 

Anyway, this is pointless because you have a huge crush on Daniel Jones,.. whom we are not drafting this year. I have a better chance to win the lottery than you do of having this dude get drafted at 16 by the Panthers.

have a nice day.

[DaRealPantherFan]

I'd like to see another season of Cam and how his shoulder is holding up before we really start investing in a QB. 

[JARROD]

53 minutes ago, RIAnBOW said:

Do you believe the Panthers will sign Cam to a contract extension? 

If so, how long?  And how much money?

Absolutely without question. The dude just had his best statistical season yet with completion % and touchdown to interception ratio with a busted shoulder.  

I have no clue what the contract will look like. Cam isn’t only the franchise quarterback, he’s been a great face to the franchise and a leader in the community.  Charlotte is on the map for the NFL in large part to Cam Newton.

At any rate, the best you do is draft a guy that will sit for 3-4 seasons, and if they become a viable starter then you have trade options.

personally, although the possibility is there for a Will Grier or someone, I think they roll with Kyle Allen and company for now. 

[poorboysrev]

39 minutes ago, RIAnBOW said:

You used this phrase in an earlier post...."man crush"....go take a look in the mirror.

I have no illusions that the Panthers will in fact draft D. Jones from The Duke University with the 16th pick, but I do believe Tepper and Hurney have discussed the concept as such.  I also get a get a good laugh out of how incredibly uncomfortable even the mention of it makes certain people...watching the apoplectic outbursts is quite funny...like it's a personal affront to Cam or something, poor little Cam don't want to hurt his feelings. 

Cam could use some real competition, it would only make him better.  Put him in an uncomfortable place...betcha that footwork and play calling ability improve PDQ.

As for a new contract, he will be looking for $100,000,000+ of guaranteed money (and prob $150 million total) over probably 4-years....even if his shoulder is perfect is tying up that much money in one player in the best interests of the team?

No brohime...no one’s  worried about hurting Cams feelings...the fact is the 16th pick is one of our best chances to make our team better and fill an immediate need THIS season. So it just sounds stupid to blow it on someone who is 90% unlikely to play and all the poor little Cam nonsense shows where it’s coming from. You’re not a fan of the guy..gotcha. But he’s still by far the best QB this organization has ever had and if his arm is blown it will set this franchise back.Jones or whomever else you like at 16 is not going to be able to push Cam for the starting spot this season and that’s a fact 

Its obvious Marty and Rivera are in a win now, this year mode to save their jobs. Now that being the case what makes more sense...shoring up our horrid defense from last year or our oline that got EVERY QB that played behind it injured? Or worrying about “pushing” our former league MVP , franchise QB that is going to be more motivated than ever to prove folks like you wrong?  

You’re asking questions about 3 seasons down the road that we have time to figure out...I think we can win big this year if we plug up our weaknesses. All reports on Cam are that he’s coming back strong...and if so we’ll win a lot of games. By your logic the Colts should have drafted a QB with their first rd pick last year. His shoulder injury was a lot more serious and a lot more in question on whether he could come back. 

They were patient and got back to the playoffs...that’s what I’m hoping for