Drafttek Mock Draft (April 17th)

[kungfoodude]

4 hours ago, Panthers8969 said:

Pretty much my thoughts on Gary. JH believed to be a great defensive coach, Michigan in general a great program, but Gary was lacking in technique or coaching? Just don’t think the guy has it. 

 

And to expand and on my previous comment, I’m not saying it’s bad to have a good combine or whatever. Just saying someone that’s improved every year in college and has that elite production should also have “upside.” Males hit their athletic peaks when, mid 20s? Don’t see why CF or others couldn’t improve athletically, especially when they’re now being paid millions to do so

Yeah, Gary kind of scares me a bit too. I know the argument is that he wasn't used properly but he doesn't have a lot of really great film either. 

I see what you are saying about Ferrell but that is not typically the case. Guys that are average or below average athletes do not typically make much improvement in that regard when they hit the NFL, where most of the players are much more athletic that the average NCAA player. People are getting a little too caught up on Ferrell's athleticism, IMO. He's an average NFL athlete but that doesn't preclude him from being a successful NFL player.

[kungfoodude]

3 hours ago, poorboysrev said:

That is him actually reading the negatives from  his draft evaluations. Includes not fast enough or athletic enough and how his tackles were inflated, same as people saying Ferrell’s numbers were inflated because he played beside good players. Anyone just reading that , that did not actually watch him play would be sitting there saying I can’t believe we took that guy with the 8th pick...game tape counts for a lot more than what somebody writes about them on a piece of paper

 

I saw the kid play plenty as an NC State fan and I knew he was a special college player. I wasn't sure if that would translate directly to the NFL and I never expected him to be as good as he has been. I was more miffed that we drafted him when we had Jon Beason. All that said, I never thought we overdrafted him. He was a top 10 talent, for sure.

[micnificent28]

9 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but he was also extremely productive in college.

I don’t think production indicates upside at all. Upside just means room to grow. I feel in your analysis of a player you weigh production more so than other indicators but upside isn’t something you can put a number on.

[Panthers8969]

23 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

If your injured you wouldn’t do any of the drills l would suppose. But the ones that scouts question the most about him, the ones that would have improved his draft stock the most he avoided. By doing some and not those you look guilty and like you said bad advice indeed.

Yeah I really can’t think of a reason why he would do some lower body exercises but not others. It is suspicious. He just doesn’t seem that slow on tape. As opposed to like Zach Allen. Idk

[heel31ok]

13 hours ago, poorboysrev said:

Yep...how many times is defensive end running that far ? Ferrell’s got them long arms and violent hands. To me he’s the kuechly of  this draft...not the sexy pick but probably the best football player

Idk about that...

[heel31ok]

7 hours ago, FakePlasticTrees said:

That was just my guess. 4.7 is about the median combine speed for DEs. For a middle of first round pick such a speed would be worrying.

Not at all ...a solid 1st rd pick 

[kungfoodude]

4 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

I don’t think production indicates upside at all. Upside just means room to grow. I feel in your analysis of a player you weigh production more so than other indicators but upside isn’t something you can put a number on.

Production does not indicate upside, my point was more than Thornhill was not a typical "potential/upside" guy that was moderately productive or had a spike in production leading to his stock rising. Thornhill was a very, very productive college player that also happened to test very well at the combine. To me, those are the kind of guys that I want. Not just elite athletes but were able to be very productive or dominant in college, as well.

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, heel31ok said:

Idk about that...

Yeah, Keuchly was a top talent in that draft class, Ferrell is likely not in this class. I wouldn caution people against getting ultra high expectations for Ferrell because he isn't likely to be a regular double digit sack guy. That's fine, however, he has lots of other attributes that can contribute to being successful. 

I don't see why a certain portion seem to think he is an elite pass rusher nor do I see why a certain portion seem to think he is a scrub. Neither of those two are likely to be right.

[poorboysrev]

2 hours ago, heel31ok said:

Idk about that...

Opinions are opinions...I’m talking about out of the group that could be around 16 not the top 8-10 players. I place importance on someone who can walk in and play all 3 downs on day 1. If we had good starters under contract for the next couple years to see if these high “upside” guys develop then I might would see it differently. The facts are the facts though and we don’t. We need #16 to be able to start immediately 

 

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, poorboysrev said:

Opinions are opinions...I’m talking about out of the group that could be around 16 not the top 8-10 players. I place importance on someone who can walk in and play all 3 downs on day 1. If we had good starters under contract for the next couple years to see if these high “upside” guys develop then I might would see it differently. The facts are the facts though and we don’t. We need #16 to be able to start immediately 

 

I look at that differently. Our starters are fine. We not getting just ran on around the edge we just need a major upgrade in the pass rush department. We can’t afford a meh or so so complimentary rusher.  If we want to compete this pick has to do one thing and one thing very well, that’s rush the passer. I don’t care if he comes in on passing downs or what but he better be great at it. Being a 3 down starter isn’t an immediate concern.

 

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, Keuchly was a top talent in that draft class, Ferrell is likely not in this class. I wouldn caution people against getting ultra high expectations for Ferrell because he isn't likely to be a regular double digit sack guy. That's fine, however, he has lots of other attributes that can contribute to being successful. 

I don't see why a certain portion seem to think he is an elite pass rusher nor do I see why a certain portion seem to think he is a scrub. Neither of those two are likely to be right.

Isn’t that exactly what we need though? We rank near the bottom in pass rush and we lost arguably our best rusher in peppers. Can we afford to say we don’t need a guy to be a double digit sack guy? Let’s not kid ourselves we need a number 1 pass rusher. Not a complementary guy, a guy that commands double teams and recks havoc.

Farrell is a very safe pick, not elite at anything but he won’t lose you any down or just suck. That to me sounds nice if you have that luxuary.. I don’t think we do. We need the best Pass rusher on the board, I’m swinging for the fences and if ron and co want to keep their jobs next year I think they need to make the playoffs and have this same mentality.

[micnificent28]

Double post sorry guys.

[Peppers90 NC]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, Keuchly was a top talent in that draft class, Ferrell is likely not in this class. I wouldn caution people against getting ultra high expectations for Ferrell because he isn't likely to be a regular double digit sack guy. That's fine, however, he has lots of other attributes that can contribute to being successful. 

I don't see why a certain portion seem to think he is an elite pass rusher nor do I see why a certain portion seem to think he is a scrub. Neither of those two are likely to be right.

Luke put up numbers better than most of the DBs that draft

[kungfoodude]

6 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

I look at that differently. Our starters are fine. We not getting just ran on around the edge we just need a major upgrade in the pass rush department. We can’t afford a meh or so so complimentary rusher.  If we want to compete this pick has to do one thing and one thing very well, that’s rush the passer. I don’t care if he comes in on passing downs or what but he better be great at it. Being a 3 down starter isn’t an immediate concern.

  

Isn’t that exactly what we need though? We rank near the bottom in pass rush and we lost arguably our best rusher in peppers. Can we afford to say we don’t need a guy to be a double digit sack guy? Let’s not kid ourselves we need a number 1 pass rusher. Not a complementary guy, a guy that commands double teams and recks havoc.

 Farrell is a very safe pick, not elite at anything but he won’t lose you any down or just suck. That to me sounds nice if you have that luxuary.. I don’t think we do. We need the best Pass rusher on the board, I’m swinging for the fences and if ron and co want to keep their jobs next year I think they need to make the playoffs and have this same mentality.

I don't really agree that we need the best pass rusher on the board. I don't think an elite pass rusher is going to instantly make our defense top 5 again. We have a lot of needs, even with Hurney doing a pretty good job of plugging some holes. If we are going to try and get one of the guys that will likely be in the elite category(Bosa, Williams, Allen) then it will likely cost such an extreme amount of draft capital that I would really struggle to see how that is beneficial. If we, HYPOTHETICALLY, were able to get a starting caliber DE(not an elite pass rusher), a starting caliber FS and a starting caliber LT/LG/OL PLUS add some depth to various positions(OL, DL, LB, CB, QB, WR, etc) then aren't we much better suited to trying to accomplish that than swing for the fences on one guy? 

As much as we would all love to have an elite pass rusher, unless one falls to us or we catch a later round gem, I don't see the real benefit of trading away multitudes of picks for one guy. One great DE is not going to transport us to being a Super Bowl contender. We are a team with many needs, so we are better off trying to fill as many of those roster holes as possible.

[Sub Zero]

32 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't really agree that we need the best pass rusher on the board. I don't think an elite pass rusher is going to instantly make our defense top 5 again. We have a lot of needs, even with Hurney doing a pretty good job of plugging some holes. If we are going to try and get one of the guys that will likely be in the elite category(Bosa, Williams, Allen) then it will likely cost such an extreme amount of draft capital that I would really struggle to see how that is beneficial. If we, HYPOTHETICALLY, were able to get a starting caliber DE(not an elite pass rusher), a starting caliber FS and a starting caliber LT/LG/OL PLUS add some depth to various positions(OL, DL, LB, CB, QB, WR, etc) then aren't we much better suited to trying to accomplish that than swing for the fences on one guy? 

As much as we would all love to have an elite pass rusher, unless one falls to us or we catch a later round gem, I don't see the real benefit of trading away multitudes of picks for one guy. One great DE is not going to transport us to being a Super Bowl contender. We are a team with many needs, so we are better off trying to fill as many of those roster holes as possible.

Wow shitting on a post that had nothing to do with me feels lame.. I don't see why you enjoy doing so much...