Why doesn't Rivera value a returner at all?

[Sam Mills Fan]

We looked to the scrap heap for Ray-Ray, he was a disaster, we cut him, we grabbed Dortch, and then we used guys that were terrible at returns and predictably muffed multiple ones?

Why does this happen every single year? We had the *incredibly* overrated-returner-here Ted Ginn Jr. and he has been our best by far in the past 9 years. But we've used guys like Captain Munnerlyn, Bersin, Ray-Ray, Joe Adams (remember him?), Kaelin Clay (remember him??), Kealoha Pilares (remember him???), and the mediocre Philly Brown.

Most teams in the league have a guy that returns things as their specialty. We don't and we really never do. Why?

[Go DJ that's my DJ]

I just don't understand Dortches purpose on this team if he isn't going to return kickoffs and punts.

[Bartin]

Are there any teams that invest significant resources into finding a returner? Seems like everyone just uses whatever they can find/late round pick. Most of the time they don’t work out. Occasionally you get lucky. We haven’t. 

[PantherPhann89]

I don't know what's going on with Dortch but I can only assume that RR saw something that he wasn't comfortable with. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Bartin said:

Are there any teams that invest significant resources into finding a returner? Seems like everyone just uses whatever they can find/late round pick. Most of the time they don’t work out. Occasionally you get lucky. We haven’t. 

To be fair though, we're talking about a guy who saw what Devin Hester could do in Chicago and what Darren Sproles could do in San Diego.

[Two Quarters Left]

5 minutes ago, PantherPhann89 said:

I don't know what's going on with Dortch but I can only assume that RR saw something that he wasn't comfortable with. 

I'd hate to imagine seeing something more uncomfortable than what we saw yesterday with the returners.

[TheRed]

This is a very valid discussion considering how many years it's been since we've actually had a competent return game. The fact that Ginn is the best option we've seen since Steve Smith is discouraging to say the least. Truthfully the ineptitude in that area also extends to the offense as well in terms of continuing to throw poo at the wall instead of actually addressing the issue head on. Whether it's shuffling the OL right before the game, a comedy of errors on special teams, or converting defensive linemen into offensive tackles, let's just be plainly honest, Ron Rivera is out of his depth in this area. And that is what separates coaches like Ron Rivera from the Pete Carroll's and Bill Belichick's of the NFL who have been to multiple Super Bowl's and actually won.

[Cpt slay a ho]

2 weeks to sort the returner issue about to only have more muffed punts and return issues, inexcusable 

[thefuzz]

8 minutes ago, TheRed said:

This is a very valid discussion considering how many years it's been since we've actually had a competent return game. The fact that Ginn is the best option we've seen since Steve Smith is discouraging to say the least. Truthfully the ineptitude in that area also extends to the offense as well in terms of continuing to throw poo at the wall instead of actually addressing the issue head on. Whether it's shuffling the OL right before the game, a comedy of errors on special teams, or converting defensive linemen into offensive tackles, let's just be plainly honest, Ron Rivera is out of his depth in this area. And that is what separates coaches like Ron Rivera from the Pete Carroll's and Bill Belichick's of the NFL who have been to multiple Super Bowl's and actually won.

There is something really weird about Pete Carroll that I cannot put my finger on.

He is one of the most conservative head coaches out there, and still manages to win double digit games seemingly every season.

Maybe there needs to be a thread on what exactly makes Ron and Pete so different when if comes to consistency....it really is baffling to me.

[CRA]

2 hours ago, Bartin said:

Are there any teams that invest significant resources into finding a returner? Seems like everyone just uses whatever they can find/late round pick. Most of the time they don’t work out. Occasionally you get lucky. We haven’t. 

I think the best return games generally feature one of two things.

1.  Teams use legit players as returners

2. Teams find returners and then allow them to be the position depth.

We do #3

as we take positional depth and just ask them to be returners 

[My Goodness My Guinness]

We have 2 dynamic runners after the catch in Samuel and Moore. Any reason why we haven't at least tried 1 of them in the punt game?

[TheRed]

5 minutes ago, My Goodness My Guinness said:

We have 2 dynamic runners after the catch in Samuel and Moore. Any reason why we haven't at least tried 1 of them in the punt game?

[CRA]

13 minutes ago, My Goodness My Guinness said:

We have 2 dynamic runners after the catch in Samuel and Moore. Any reason why we haven't at least tried 1 of them in the punt game?

combined in college they had 21 total punt returns.  Why? because they weren't return guys. 

and we tried the standard routine last year with Moore.  Hey, DJ why don't you suddenly become a NFL return man despite that not being your bag.   And it went how that normally goes.  Poorly. 

You generally don't make NFL return guys.  Which is what we attempt to do every year.  NFL return guys generally are returners and ones that proved they could do it before they arrived. 

I'm more okay w/ just asking dudes to be kick returners.   Punt return is a true specialized skill.  Few players seem to be able to handle that. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

To me it's inexcusable. The return game is important, albeit not as much so as it used to be. If nothing else, just to let it bounce or fair catch. But we don't even have guys that can do that reliably.