Down field completion pct. Allen not looking so great

[Bartin]

7 minutes ago, top dawg said:

You do realize that these are the top receivers, right?  They aren't the best at separation, but are also.far from the worst. Julio Jones has a 2.3 for example. You do realize that these are rankings based upon all their metrics? And honestly, considering their relatively modest experience compared to some, I'd say they're doing pretty well. 

I stand by what I said. The they-can't-open sentiment is B.S.

We should've kept their WR coach. They'd probably be doing even better. 

Those aren’t the top receivers. It’s just every WR or TE with at least 23 targets.

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's one point I agree with.

I'm not seeing a lot of benefit out of changing from Lance Taylor to Jim Hostler.

(except it being less competition for Scott Turner getting the OC job when Norv retires)

They might even have taken a step back. It's just kind of hard to say with the way the offense is being run, as it might be Norv's fault. I've never had as difficult of a time drawing a definitive conclusion on why it's like our passing offense seems like blood flowing through a clogged artery. 

[Forty-Eight]

4 hours ago, top dawg said:

According to NFL Next Gen stats, you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Some of you need to appreciate the receivers more. This "can't get open" narrative is B.S.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving

 

Next gen stats is so friggn stupid. 

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, top dawg said:

They might even have taken a step back. It's just kind of hard to say with the way the offense is being run, as it might be Norv's fault. I've never had as difficult of a time drawing a definitive conclusion on why it's like our passing offense seems like blood flowing through a clogged artery. 

Under Shula, we tended to have lousy route combinations. I don't think that's true anymore.

I know we'll likely never hear what the reason was behind not continuing with Taylor, but I have to admit I'd love to know.

[Mr. Scot]

Also mentioned in the other thread, one of our beat reporters confirmed that we were never actually interested in Emmanuel Sanders.

I'm watching tonight's game, and combined with what we saw this past Sunday, I'm really starting to wonder why not.

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Also mentioned in the other thread, one of our beat reporters confirmed that we were never actually interested in Emmanuel Sanders.

I'm watching tonight's game, and combined with what we saw this past Sunday, I'm really starting to wonder why not.

the answer is on the roster. :P 

[AceBoogie]

We don’t need to pile on Allen. The team needs to keep rallying around him like they have the past couple of weeks. He is what he is...a backup. Typically if you’re back up has to play as many games as he has this season you aren’t playing for anything anyway. 

[MasterAwesome]

47 minutes ago, top dawg said:

You do realize that these are the top receivers, right?  They aren't the best at separation, but are also.far from the worst. Julio Jones has a 2.3 for example. You do realize that these are rankings based upon all their metrics? And honestly, considering their relatively modest experience compared to some, I'd say they're doing pretty well. 

I stand by what I said. The they-can't-open sentiment is B.S.

We should've kept their WR coach. They'd probably be doing even better. 

No offense man, but I think you should take a little more time to read and analyze your charts before you post them. This isn’t a list of top receivers nor is it any kind of “ranking”. It’s simply sorted by default by most cushion yards...completely unrelated to a receiver’s ability to get open (which was what you were trying to convey by posting this).

As far as Julio...I would make an educated guess that his low separation comes from his propensity to get double-teamed quite frequently. Somehow I don’t imagine Samuel and Moore have garnered enough respect in this league to get routinely double-teamed...especially since our offense runs through CMC and our opponents generally devote more defenders to stacking the box.

That being said, Moore and Samuel could be getting more separation than this data suggests...since it’s only accounting for separation when they are targeted. If Moore/Samuel are routinely getting separation but Allen just isn’t looking their way, then that wouldn’t be reflected here.

Nevertheless, this chart simply isn’t saying what you think it’s saying.

[AggieLean]

Kyle has done an admirable job, but we need Cam back.

[top dawg]

8 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

No offense man, but I think you should take a little more time to read and analyze your charts before you post them. This isn’t a list of top receivers nor is it any kind of “ranking”. It’s simply sorted by default by most cushion yards...completely unrelated to a receiver’s ability to get open (which was what you were trying to convey by posting this).

As far as Julio...I would make an educated guess that his low separation comes from his propensity to get double-teamed quite frequently. Somehow I don’t imagine Samuel and Moore have garnered enough respect in this league to get routinely double-teamed...especially since our offense runs through CMC and our opponents generally devote more defenders to stacking the box.

That being said, Moore and Samuel could be getting more separation than this data suggests...since it’s only accounting for separation when they are targeted. If Moore/Samuel are routinely getting separation but Allen just isn’t looking their way, then that wouldn’t be reflected here.

Nevertheless, this chart simply isn’t saying what you think it’s saying.

Granted! But the bottom line is that the chart's separation metric---inasmuch as it has any value---basically shows that neither Moore or Samuel are the dogs at separation that some here are trying to make them out to be, and it basically kind of parallels what we've been seeing if we're honest. It's not like they're handicapped or even handicapping the team. With more accurate passes, or even simply better ball placement (not to mention just calling their number), we'll get far more efficient production out of at least one or both (particularly Samuel down field).

[top dawg]

Don't get me wrong, they can stand to get better, & it seemed like they were showing a steady progression last season. Now, both seem to be just existing in the offense. To 89's point in that respect, perhaps they do need a little more fire, but due to the circumstances being what they've been with our QBs (and/or line if we want to go there), and the fact that I'm not so sure they've been set up for success, I think that 89 could stand to be more diplomatic and fans more patient.

[raz]

9 hours ago, top dawg said:

They might even have taken a step back. It's just kind of hard to say with the way the offense is being run, as it might be Norv's fault. I've never had as difficult of a time drawing a definitive conclusion on why it's like our passing offense seems like blood flowing through a clogged artery. 

if you listen to what sherman said after the game - they knew what we were running every play.    contrast that with our D who obviously had no idea what san fran was going to do and got spanked thinking they did.    this is on norv, period.   its really hard when the other teams d backs can just run the route for you and know what you're going to do.   its the 2 guys who got run out of san diego.  its the guy who got ran out of minnesota and found a soft soft cushy place to land on our doorstep.   its the guy who folks from the 80's say is one of the best O minds in football - guys like troy aikman.   in other words we're not good enough to let them know what we're gonna do and do it anyway.  that should be obvious to anyone who is a fan of this team and its an issue no matter who is behind center

[top dawg]

18 minutes ago, bull123 said:

we just got embarrassed 51-13...and we lost to friggin tampa bay at home on national tv

smitty speaking the truth and fans are out of patience

its way past time for the players to step up and perform on the field

If a WR has a QB that can't get him the bal where it needs to be and the opposing D knows what you're running as has been said in the post above, it's kinda hard to step up.

[mav1234]

2 hours ago, top dawg said:

Granted! But the bottom line is that the chart's separation metric---inasmuch as it has any value---basically shows that neither Moore or Samuel are the dogs at separation that some here are trying to make them out to be, and it basically kind of parallels what we've been seeing if we're honest. It's not like they're handicapped or even handicapping the team. With more accurate passes, or even simply better ball placement (not to mention just calling their number), we'll get far more efficient production out of at least one or both (particularly Samuel down field).

both Moore and Samuel are ranked in the bottom *third* of the league in separation.  They are very bad at getting separation. If you want to argue that separation in this case is less useful because of our O, fine.  But to say that "the chart's separation metric ... shows that neither Moore or Samuel are the dogs at separation that some here are trying to make them out to be ..." is incorrect. The chart suggests they are NOT getting separation. 

There are mitigating factors in this that make separation less than an amazing metric in determining much of anything; but the issue is that as a whole, our receiving corps is not getting separation.  When you have a guy like Julio Jones pulling double coverage, he has low separation; the net result is Ridley and Hooper having very high degrees of separation because of the attention Jones pulls.  We do have Wright with OK separation, but his catch % is garbage (56%... at least better than Samuel's 50%... Moore has been fairly reliable there, though).

I do not think these statistics treat our receives in a fair light because of 1) we are running a meh and predictable passing offense, and 2) we had an injured starter and then a backup QB the entire season.  But they still do not paint a good picture of any of our receives in the least, heh.