Incredible... Wait, I meant "very good"

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, Snake said:

It's very interesting how analytics will play into Football. It's the money ball way of doing things. 

That's is were I'm seeing this going.  Main reason I think Cam is done here.  The big money will be spent on the offensive and defensive line first.  We will have a QB that will be a game manager for the first few years. 

[weyco2000]

10 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I posted one thread for people to discuss speculation at the time of the announcements and another some hours later with my own analysis. That's exactly two on this topic. Other threads I've posted were on other topics.

Posted this one because I found the clip in question while reading something else and got a huge chuckle out of Tepper's gaffe

You were at one point, the voice of reason for the Huddle. Although you weren't an "official mod", you had a way of coming into a volatile thread and deflecting the insults with your wit... what the hell happened to that guy? 

Seriously there's over a thousand Hurney/Rivera threads, they're pretty much all the same... why create more? 

[micnificent28]

11 hours ago, bobowilson said:

Armanti Edwards the 89th pick in the draft, late third round

Find me literally one general manager in the entire NFL (who has had many drafts) who has not picked someone equal to or worse than Armanti Edwards in the third round 

Seriously, try it

Find me one

Armanti Edwards played 41 games in the NFL;  he's more or less your typical third round.  He was even a good kick returner for a couple of seasons.  Edwards contributed more to the Panthers than Daeshon Hall ever did.

I'm looking through the Patriots draft history right now, and seriously, 80% of their third rounders are busts.  Most of the third rounders they picked the past 5 years never even played for them.

People have a very strange hysteria and fixation with Hurney when it comes to late round picks that fails to take into account the incredibly high bust rate for mid round picks for literally every team in the NFL.

 

 

The problem with the Armanti pick was not him himself. It was the compensation you gave up to select him that is ugly.

[1of10Charnatives]

2 hours ago, Squirrel said:

But what is the ROI?

4

[bobowilson]

40 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

The problem with the Armanti pick was not him himself. It was the compensation you gave up to select him that is ugly.

Yeah guess, what, we made the trade with the Patriots

You know who the Patriots selected with the 33rd pick in the draft we gave them?  

Some guy named Ras-I Dowling

He played 9 games for the Patriots before being cut, 12 games total in the NFL, only lasted 2 years in the NFL.

Armanti Edwards had a better NFL career than Ras-I Dowling.  At least Armanti was good on special teams.

Are Patriots fans still talking about what an idiot their management is for picking Ras Dowling in the 2nd round 10 years later?  

[1of10Charnatives]

10 minutes ago, bobowilson said:

Yeah guess, what, we made the trade with the Patriots

You know who the Patriots selected with the 33rd pick in the draft we gave them?  

Some guy named Ras-I Dowling

He played 9 games for the Patriots before being cut, 12 games total in the NFL, only lasted 2 years in the NFL.

Armanti Edwards had a better NFL career than Ras-I Dowling.  At least Armanti was good on special teams.

Are Patriots fans still talking about what an idiot their management is for picking Ras Dowling in the 2nd round 10 years later?  

In spirit I am with you that fans often have unrealistic expectations about later round picks, however two things:

1. I’m a 3rd generation ASU alumni that badly wanted Armanti to succeed and even I think calling him good on special teams is a stretch. He was a square peg that our coaching staff tried to force into a round hole.

2. Patriots fans have had multiple Super Bowl wins to distract them from how Ras I Dowlings career turned out. Given our comparative lack of success in the same time frame, it’s not unusual that our picks might be more closely critiqued by the fan base.

[DeAngelo Beason]

13 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Exactly. The ones trying so hard to downplay his role are also the posters who are Hurney's biggest critics and we're likely upset when Tepper essentially gave him praise. Tepper discounted much of their constant complaints.

Precisely.  I am in the minority on this board that recognizes that we as a fanbase couldn't have asked for much more out of Hurney this past offseason than we got out of him.  A few stumbles in the draft, but the reality is the fail rate on draft picks past the second round in the NFL is extremely high.  When I analyze the "hit rate" from other GMs around the league, Hurney is right there with everyone else.  Hurney 2.0 is doing a much better job than his old self and Gettlemen did, that's for damn sure.

In fact, as I recall, Hurney has drafted some guys that went on to be stars for other teams.  Terrell McClain and Evan Mathis come to mind right off the top of my head.  Kinda makes you wonder about that "coaching" thing I mentioned...

[panthers55]

12 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

Precisely.  I am in the minority on this board that recognizes that we as a fanbase couldn't have asked for much more out of Hurney this past offseason than we got out of him.  A few stumbles in the draft, but the reality is the fail rate on draft picks past the second round in the NFL is extremely high.  When I analyze the "hit rate" from other GMs around the league, Hurney is right there with everyone else.  Hurney 2.0 is doing a much better job than his old self and Gettlemen did, that's for damn sure.

In fact, as I recall, Hurney has drafted some guys that went on to be stars for other teams.  Terrell McClain and Evan Mathis come to mind right off the top of my head.  Kinda makes you wonder about that "coaching" thing I mentioned...

https://www.panthers.com/news/david-tepper-interview-transcript-ron-rivera-head-coach

Here is a transcript from the interview on Panthers.com. All this talk about Hurney being demoted or that he does not have Tepper's full support is obviously people reading what they want to believe. Hurney clarifies the VP role is to interface between the business and football side. At his age, Hurney might not be the long term solution but nothing suggests he is not going to be the GM or in charge of football decisions going forward.  The band of Hurney critics on here will keep searching for what they want to believe but in the official site of the Panthers clearly Tepper still supports Hurney and is bringing more help for him not corraling or changing his duties at least for now. 

[Mr. Scot]

29 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

In fact, as I recall, Hurney has drafted some guys that went on to be stars for other teams.  Terrell McClain and Evan Mathis come to mind right off the top of my head.  Kinda makes you wonder about that "coaching" thing I mentioned...

If you recall Terrell McClain being a star for any team, you don't recall. McClain stuck around as depth on a couple of different teams. Evan Mathis did okay.

of course, invoking the name of Terrell McClain also brings up Sione Fua.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

In spirit I am with you that fans often have unrealistic expectations about later round picks, however two things:

1. I’m a 3rd generation ASU alumni that badly wanted Armanti to succeed and even I think calling him good on special teams is a stretch. He was a square peg that our coaching staff tried to force into a round hole.

2. Patriots fans have had multiple Super Bowl wins to distract them from how Ras I Dowlings career turned out. Given our comparative lack of success in the same time frame, it’s not unusual that our picks might be more closely critiqued by the fan base.

Pretty much.

The Patriots have had plenty of misses in the draft as well as free agency, but their fans don't seem to care because they put together rosters good enough to win Super Bowls.

Meanwhile over here, we put together teams that have repeated losing seasons and some of our fans get upset when you question the leadership that does it 

[DeAngelo Beason]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

If you recall Terrell McClain being a star for any team, you don't recall. McClain stuck around as depth on a couple of different teams. Evan Mathis did okay.

of course, invoking the name of Terrell McClain also brings up Sione Fua.

I'm quite sure McClain had a two or three year stretch from the Cowboys to Redskins where he was a well regarded player league-wide.  I also recall him being the Cowboys best d lineman for at least one season.  Maybe the word "star" is a hair of an exaggeration.

Evan Mathis was rated the best guard in football for at least three seasons as I recall.  And he kinda won a superbowl against the Panthers

 

Point being, both players were utterly useless when they played for the Panthers, but went on to have pretty decent careers.  So obviously, the talent was there.

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I'm quite sure McClain had a two or three year stretch from the Cowboys to Redskins where he was a well regarded player league-wide.  I also recall him being the Cowboys best d lineman for at least one season.  Maybe the word "star" is a hair of an exaggeration.

Evan Mathis was rated the best guard in football for at least three seasons as I recall.  And he kinda won a superbowl against the Panthers

Point being, both players were utterly useless when they played for the Panthers, but went on to have pretty decent careers.  So obviously, the talent was there.

And the several others that completely washed out of the league within two or three years?

(The overwhelming majority of the 2010 to 2012 draft classes, for example)

[1of10Charnatives]

11 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I'm quite sure McClain had a two or three year stretch from the Cowboys to Redskins where he was a well regarded player league-wide.  I also recall him being the Cowboys best d lineman for at least one season.  Maybe the word "star" is a hair of an exaggeration.

Evan Mathis was rated the best guard in football for at least three seasons as I recall.  And he kinda won a superbowl against the Panthers

 

Point being, both players were utterly useless when they played for the Panthers, but went on to have pretty decent careers.  So obviously, the talent was there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Mathis

Mathis was good enough for 94 career starts, none of which were for us even though we drafted him, 2 pro bowls and an all pro nod. If you’re making the argument that we draft players and then don’t develop them despite their talent, in my mind he is your prime example but to be fair I think all NFL teams have some of this going on. If it isn’t endemic I don’t get too worked up about it.

If Tepper really wants to get into analytics deep, I think an intriguing metric would be to develop a baseline for measuring achievement by players elsewhere after being cut by the team that drafted them. You could then measure your own team against this baseline as a tool for evaluating whether your coaching staff was recognizing and developing talent better or worse than the league as a whole.

[Mr. Scot]

One other thing I get out of the clip in the OP: Tepper might want to keep up with the impromptu private meetings and avoid traditional press conferences.

This particular gaffe was hilarious