A Path to Trevor or Fields---without "Tanking"

[Monty83]

Culture is not built or lost in a single year. Plus there is a a such thing as a culture of mediocrity and misfits. Most teams actually fall in this category, which is technically worse than tanking, because it’s trying to win with the wrong strategy and players for multiple years.

If you’re going to tank, just like if you’re going to do anything, DO IT QUICKLY and DO IT RIGHT. And before you can build a culture, you have to build a strategy, and your current components may or may not be a part of that, which is the first thing to evaluate. You don’t want a losing culture? Go evaluate winners and develop habits WHILE you lose. 

[rippadonn]

This last season was a tank. We have the #7. IF you're going to move on give the Dolphins Cam and #7 for Tua. Heck, after the combine he may actually fall. That's the best scenario, actually you get that dynamic threat back whos arm talent is Cam level. This was the tank year. IF they are indeed moving on it needs to be today. Commit to it and let people know, fans AND Cam so he can get into his best situation if that's not here. I don't support any of this. I want my franchise to develop STARS and keep those STARS to win SBs because you NEED veterans to do THAT. I'd prefer they commit to Cam and "rebuild" everywhere else to win in 2-3 years instead of this mythical five year plan.

Say what you want but Jerry Richardson achieved football greatness at times on a shoestring budget in comparison to most owners who were much richer than he. 2 SuperBowls in 12 years. KC just made it back after 50yrs! Don't destroy for the sake of destruction. Reload!

Mediocrity is better than bottom feeding. The Trevor thing ain't happening. It's NOW or never on QB here. Keep Cam publicly tell him you love him or f'n move on. It's childish and Gettleman like. Just my opinion.

[JARROD]

5 hours ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

UNO!

Yeh, they play uno,... like solo hearts.

[4Corners]

On 2/15/2020 at 5:57 PM, Jon Snow said:

Or you could start Grier all year and keep what you have and not sign anyone.  You could get in the top 5 just doing nothing.

Exactly. Why overthink it. If we want to get the #1 pick, the answer is on the roster. 

[WOW!!]

On 2/16/2020 at 7:21 PM, 4Corners said:

Exactly. Why overthink it. If we want to get the #1 pick, the answer is on the roster. 

We still might win more games then some team who gets hit with injuries or sucks more then us.. Now we are stuck like Miami...

[kungfoodude]

On 2/16/2020 at 10:32 AM, MHS831 said:

Or second.  But only 1 draft in the last 5 has had 2 qbs go one and two.  Since there are 2 qbs who are good enough (at this time), it is possible. 

Personally, I was simply describing how you could be in position to make the move--but you are right--this is a very risky plan--we brought in Brady for a reason--so I doubt we go after the best QB.   I think we would take Trevor, but we are not counting on it....Part of me wonders if Plan A is not simply to start working with Grier.

 

If Plan A is to start working with Grier.....WTF is Plan B???

[mrcompletely11]

11 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

If Plan A is to start working with Grier.....WTF is Plan B???

Nathan Peterman

[MHS831]

12 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

If Plan A is to start working with Grier.....WTF is Plan B???

take up soccer.

(many will laugh at this---but think of what the year with Clausen did for us--besides, we have Brady and maybe that will help Grier a lot.  Reminder--Terry Bradshaw--Tepper's childhood team's QB--was  a 38% passer as a rookie, throwing only 6 TDs and 24 pics.

. My point is this---we throw Greg Little into a nearly impossible situation, without a preseason etc.  and everyone is saying he sucks.  We throw Grier in vs. Indy on the road and he sucks--everyone ready to move on.

But now we have Brady, and people are hyping him too much---but Rhule saw Grier in college (conference opponent) and was impressed.  Is it possible that Brady could develop him?   Plan A is to focus on the rookies from 2019 and not trash them because they sucked when given opportunity. 

So part of plan A is to not draft a QB and lets see what we have.  The rest of it is to build the OL and add a WR.

Plan B is to draft a QB and move on from Grier.  However, if we do that, we put a rookie under center with no established LOT, no LG, a wobbly C, no real #2 WR (I say Samuel is a slot).  In addition, you ask that QB to learn a new system when playing from behind because the defense has no real DTs, DEs converted from 3-4 LBs and one void of its leader (59). 

It will be interesting to see what we do in free agency at the QB position if Cam leaves. 

Premature speculation:  It does not look as if we are re-signing Allen.  It seems that we are shopping Cam.  That leaves Grier.   Yes, he looked bad last year in Norv's system.  Last year, different system.  Should we not kick the tires for a season while building the DL and OL?

[TheRed]

45 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Nathan Peterman

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

take up soccer.

(many will laugh at this---but think of what the year with Clausen did for us--besides, we have Brady and maybe that will help Grier a lot.  Reminder--Terry Bradshaw--Tepper's childhood team's QB--was  a 38% passer as a rookie, throwing only 6 TDs and 24 pics.

. My point is this---we throw Greg Little into a nearly impossible situation, without a preseason etc.  and everyone is saying he sucks.  We throw Grier in vs. Indy on the road and he sucks--everyone ready to move on.

But now we have Brady, and people are hyping him too much---but Rhule saw Grier in college (conference opponent) and was impressed.  Is it possible that Brady could develop him?   Plan A is to focus on the rookies from 2019 and not trash them because they sucked when given opportunity. 

So part of plan A is to not draft a QB and lets see what we have.  The rest of it is to build the OL and add a WR.

Plan B is to draft a QB and move on from Grier.  However, if we do that, we put a rookie under center with no established LOT, no LG, a wobbly C, no real #2 WR (I say Samuel is a slot).  In addition, you ask that QB to learn a new system when playing from behind because the defense has no real DTs, DEs converted from 3-4 LBs and one void of its leader (59). 

It will be interesting to see what we do in free agency at the QB position if Cam leaves. 

Premature speculation:  It does not look as if we are re-signing Allen.  It seems that we are shopping Cam.  That leaves Grier.   Yes, he looked bad last year in Norv's system.  Last year, different system.  Should we not kick the tires for a season while building the DL and OL?

If Rhule is impressed with Grier at this level, I am just going to go ahead and say that it was an unbelievably terrible hire. And for the dumb trolls in here(not you), I do not hate Will Grier. Nothing I saw from him made me think he was an NFL QB. Nothing. Should be cut him? No. Should he be holding a clipboard for a couple of years? Yes.

I think the most prudent non-Cam strategy(keeping Cam is quite obviously the most prudent) would be to draft a QB this season if one is worth drafting(doesn't have to be at #7) and also sign a veteran QB. There are going to be a lot of older veterans available as short term splash hires and some Tannehill-like younger talents that lost a lot of luster. Either way, we do have stop gap options available. 

I realize a lot of the rookies were not set up to succeed but for Little, the flashes we saw were not enough to not have a serious replacement plan in place, IMO. As much as people want to jettison Cam, Little has the same amount of concussions(in the NFL) through year one as Luke Kuechly did when he retired. That is a HUGE reason to be concerned. On the surface, you have to wonder if he is physically suited to playing in the NFL or if he had a lot of undiagnosed concussions earlier in his career(wouldn't be surprising). For Grier, he was a marginal NFL prospect anyway(3-5th round grade) and nothing we saw really made anyone think anything other than that. If he develops, fine. The biggest strike against BOTH of those guys? They were both Marty Hurney specials. 

 

[stbugs]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

If Rhule is impressed with Grier at this level, I am just going to go ahead and say that it was an unbelievably terrible hire. And for the dumb trolls in here(not you), I do not hate Will Grier. Nothing I saw from him made me think he was an NFL QB. Nothing. Should be cut him? No. Should he be holding a clipboard for a couple of years? Yes.

I think the most prudent non-Cam strategy(keeping Cam is quite obviously the most prudent) would be to draft a QB this season if one is worth drafting(doesn't have to be at #7) and also sign a veteran QB. There are going to be a lot of older veterans available as short term splash hires and some Tannehill-like younger talents that lost a lot of luster. Either way, we do have stop gap options available. 

I realize a lot of the rookies were not set up to succeed in a lot of ways but for Little, the flashes we saw were not enough to not have a serious replacement plan in place, IMO. As much as people want to jettison Cam, Little has the same amount of concussions(in the NFL) through year one as Luke Kuechly did when he retired. That is a HUGE reason to be concerned. On the surface, you have to wonder if he is physically suited to playing in the NFL or if he had a lot of undiagnosed concussions earlier in his career(wouldn't be surprising). For Grier, he was a marginal NFL prospect anyway(3-5th round grade) and nothing we saw really made anyone think anything other than that. If he develops, fine. The biggest strike against BOTH of those guys? They were both Marty Hurney specials. 

 

Do you really think we’ll start Grier because Brady thinks a lot of him or if like in 2001 and 2010 we are going full blown rebuild? I mean we’ve done it twice before and people don’t want to be bad in 2020? I get it we are losing the guys (already lost most - Norwell, Kalil, Olsen, Stewart, Kuechly, Davis, etc.) who made the 2013-2017 run a lot of fun to watch. Almost got the ring, but great run. It’s the same with the prior run with Peppers, Jake, Smith, etc.

Going with Grier means they are looking to the 2021 QBs. 2020 may suck total balls but if this rebuild is like the last two then we’ll get another shot. Brady and Belichick and Von Miller won’t stand in our way this time so maybe we’ll reach the promised land.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Do you really think we’ll start Grier because Brady thinks a lot of him or if like in 2001 and 2010 we are going full blown rebuild? I mean we’ve done it twice before and people don’t want to be bad in 2020? I get it we are losing the guys (already lost most - Norwell, Kalil, Olsen, Stewart, Kuechly, Davis, etc.) who made the 2013-2017 run a lot of fun to watch. Almost got the ring, but great run. It’s the same with the prior run with Peppers, Jake, Smith, etc.

Going with Grier means they are looking to the 2021 QBs. 2020 may suck total balls but if this rebuild is like the last two then we’ll get another shot. Brady and Belichick and Von Miller won’t stand in our way this time so maybe we’ll reach the promised land.

If we roll with Grier I would assume it is because we plan on tanking, like you said. I am on record as being against that, because it doesn't often yield results. There is a reason you see a lot of the same teams in the top 15 of the draft year after year. 

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

If we roll with Grier I would assume it is because we plan on tanking, like you said. I am on record as being against that, because it doesn't often yield results. There is a reason you see a lot of the same teams in the top 15 of the draft year after year. 

There’s also a reason why some teams in great QB drafts go from mediocre to playoff contenders every year. Tampa got one top shot and the QBs were Winston and Mariota. Tennessee at least got to the playoffs multiple times. 2021 is not Winston and Mariota. I wouldn’t be recommending tanking if I didn’t feel that the 2021 QB class would be strong, even past Lawrence and Fields.

Also, I hate the Browns example. Their drafts before the last few were legitimately awful. You almost had to try to find bad players in some of the drafts. They were special in finding busts.

[MHS831]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

If Rhule is impressed with Grier at this level, I am just going to go ahead and say that it was an unbelievably terrible hire. And for the dumb trolls in here(not you), I do not hate Will Grier. Nothing I saw from him made me think he was an NFL QB. Nothing. Should be cut him? No. Should he be holding a clipboard for a couple of years? Yes.

I think the most prudent non-Cam strategy(keeping Cam is quite obviously the most prudent) would be to draft a QB this season if one is worth drafting(doesn't have to be at #7) and also sign a veteran QB. There are going to be a lot of older veterans available as short term splash hires and some Tannehill-like younger talents that lost a lot of luster. Either way, we do have stop gap options available. 

I realize a lot of the rookies were not set up to succeed but for Little, the flashes we saw were not enough to not have a serious replacement plan in place, IMO. As much as people want to jettison Cam, Little has the same amount of concussions(in the NFL) through year one as Luke Kuechly did when he retired. That is a HUGE reason to be concerned. On the surface, you have to wonder if he is physically suited to playing in the NFL or if he had a lot of undiagnosed concussions earlier in his career(wouldn't be surprising). For Grier, he was a marginal NFL prospect anyway(3-5th round grade) and nothing we saw really made anyone think anything other than that. If he develops, fine. The biggest strike against BOTH of those guys? They were both Marty Hurney specials. 

 

You are probably right, but I want to see what he can do.  I always appreciate your insights---and I can't disagree--here is to hoping we are wrong and they can find at least a backup QB in Grier.