How different are we than last year?

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, trueblade said:

I agree with this. The difference in the team's success can mostly be attributed to the fact that Cam was simply so great (and healthy) during one of their tenures that he could overcome their mistakes. Look at the WR crew Cam carried to SB50.

I leaned a little bit towards Hurney 2.0 initially because I remembered how much talent Hurney 1.0 had stocked us with and liked most of his moves "on paper." Plus I had/have a SEVERE grudge against Gettleman for the Kalil incident. I was definitely on record for absolutely HATING that signing and am still disgusted about it. 

Hindsight hasn't been kind to Hurney 2.0, however. He fuging stinks about as much as the late Gettleman years. I am completely over both of them and want out of this fuging shitty GM cycle.

[thefuzz]

47 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I leaned a little bit towards Hurney 2.0 initially because I remembered how much talent Hurney 1.0 had stocked us with and liked most of his moves "on paper." Plus I had/have a SEVERE grudge against Gettleman for the Kalil incident. I was definitely on record for absolutely HATING that signing and am still disgusted about it. 

Hindsight hasn't been kind to Hurney 2.0, however. He fuging stinks about as much as the late Gettleman years. I am completely over both of them and want out of this fuging shitty GM cycle.

I wonder when Mister knew he was getting rid of DG?

If it was a few months earlier, we could have just promoted Beane and never seen Marty in the building again.

Or, did Mister want Marty in the building again for some stupid reasons like having someone around who would do as he said, and look the other way at the inappropriate poo that he was doing around the building?

It looks to me that this team has been in a steady decline since Beane left, and Buffalo has been ascending.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I wonder when Mister knew he was getting rid of DG?

If it was a few months earlier, we could have just promoted Beane and never seen Marty in the building again.

Or, did Mister want Marty in the building again for some stupid reasons like having someone around who would do as he said, and look the other way at the inappropriate poo that he was doing around the building?

It looks to me that this team has been in a steady decline since Beane left, and Buffalo has been ascending.

I am guessing that Richardson didn't like having to butt heads with Gettleman and had his "last straw" moment before firing him on relatively short notice. Then he goes with the familiar and available yes man in Hurney. 

I also think that is why Tepper likes Hurney, because he is a yes man. Typically people in his position in finance don't want a lot of challenges to their opinions when it comes to carrying out their commands and Hurney is just what the doctor ordered. And Hurney has just enough knowledge to be of use to Tepper, who really doesn't know much about running a professional football franchise. 

[therealmjl]

we have less talent, everywhere. especially at important positions like QB, HC, and MLB.

[stbugs]

52 minutes ago, Tepper’s Used Car Lot said:

we have less talent, everywhere. especially at important positions like QB, HC, and MLB.

Especially at OL. I know people talk about the lack of WRs that Cam had in 2015, aside from a 1000 yard TE. Well, the OL was what helped. How do you think Ginn was getting open so much deep? Philly and even Funchess got open. That OL was ranked 2nd only behind the Cowboys in most rankings.

Hurney absolutely decimated the OL the past three years. Signing injured players, reaching for a bad T and ignoring interior OL. The entire interior OL from 2015 was let go or retired in a 2 year period and yet we drafted 0 replacements the past 3 years. Daley moved to LG and there was talk of trying Little there too because we have nothing there.

Gettleman was OK with us, but he added Turner, Norwell (UDFA), Williams (solid pre-injury) and Moton. Those 4 and Ryan Kalil were there before he was fired.

[therealmjl]

27 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Especially at OL. I know people talk about the lack of WRs that Cam had in 2015, aside from a 1000 yard TE. Well, the OL was what helped. How do you think Ginn was getting open so much deep? Philly and even Funchess got open. That OL was ranked 2nd only behind the Cowboys in most rankings.

Hurney absolutely decimated the OL the past three years. Signing injured players, reaching for a bad T and ignoring interior OL. The entire interior OL from 2015 was let go or retired in a 2 year period and yet we drafted 0 replacements the past 3 years. Daley moved to LG and there was talk of trying Little there too because we have nothing there.

Gettleman was OK with us, but he added Turner, Norwell (UDFA), Williams (solid pre-injury) and Moton. Those 4 and Ryan Kalil were there before he was fired.

true

[MasterAwesome]

9 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I am guessing that Richardson didn't like having to butt heads with Gettleman and had his "last straw" moment before firing him on relatively short notice. Then he goes with the familiar and available yes man in Hurney. 

I also think that is why Tepper likes Hurney, because he is a yes man. Typically people in his position in finance don't want a lot of challenges to their opinions when it comes to carrying out their commands and Hurney is just what the doctor ordered. And Hurney has just enough knowledge to be of use to Tepper, who really doesn't know much about running a professional football franchise. 

I think it's more likely that people on this board severely overstate Hurney's actual role and level of autonomy within the organization.  Roster building is quite clearly always a heavily synergistic and coordinated relationship between the GM and the head coach...but nuance is not one of the Huddle's strong suits.  Negotiating contracts and managing the cap do appear to generally be mostly (if not exclusively) the role of the GM, but we hired Suleiman to assist with those tasks.

The fact that Hurney has been evaluated and kept on as GM by two different owners should be an indicator that he is at least somewhat highly regarded in whatever his actual tasks are behind the scene.  You simply cannot reconcile the theory that Tepper/Richardson like Hurney because he's a "yes man" who simply carries out their bidding with simultaneously trashing Hurney as a GM for his roster decisions...because those are being dictated by Tepper/Richardson, no?  He either carries out their bidding or he deviates and acts autonomously and then gets fired and replaced by another "yes man", if that's what the owner is looking for.  If that's really your theory, then I don't understand how our lackluster roster isn't entirely 100% Tepper and Richardson's fault.

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I think it's more likely that people on this board severely overstate Hurney's actual role and level of autonomy within the organization.  Roster building is quite clearly always a heavily synergistic and coordinated relationship between the GM and the head coach...but nuance is not one of the Huddle's strong suits.  Negotiating contracts and managing the cap do appear to generally be mostly (if not exclusively) the role of the GM, but we hired Suleiman to assist with those tasks.

The fact that Hurney has been evaluated and kept on as GM by two different owners should be an indicator that he is at least somewhat highly regarded in whatever his actual tasks are behind the scene.  You simply cannot reconcile the theory that Tepper/Richardson like Hurney because he's a "yes man" who simply carries out their bidding with simultaneously trashing Hurney as a GM for his roster decisions...because those are being dictated by Tepper/Richardson, no?  He either carries out their bidding or he deviates and acts autonomously and then gets fired and replaced by another "yes man", if that's what the owner is looking for.  If that's really your theory, then I don't understand how our lackluster roster isn't entirely 100% Tepper and Richardson's fault.

Well, we are unlikely to ever know the true nature of what Marty Hurney's actual day to day responsibilities are. Every individual take is essentially speculation, mine and yours included. 

Most GM's have a pretty decent amount of autonomy when it comes to their tasks, however I am quite sure that most owners want input on big personnel hires or big roster decisions. I would think there is also a spectrum of how tilted that decision making process is in the direction of ownership(the extreme end being micromanager/meddler) and then the counter being tilted heavily towards the owner trusting the GM to make those decisions. 

The real question is where did/does the Hurney/Richardson and Hurney/Tepper combinations lie on that scale? I would theorize that Richardson may have had greater input than Tepper. I am guessing that for a few reasons; 1. He was fairly active in CBA negotiations in the ownership group., 2. He was indeed a former NFL player. 3. We certainly heard rumblings about players having a direct line of communication to the owner when contracts were being negotiated under Gettleman. 

Tepper, on the other hand, isn't likely to have the same level of football knowledge that Richardson had. But, when it came down to serious direction moves, we heard early on that Tepper didn't want to keep Newton and Hurney reportedly did want to keep him. IF that is true, it would certainly seem to indicate that Tepper is going to ultimately dictate major roster moves and not just let Marty do his thing. 

The truth is, we just don't know. I also never suggested that the GM nor owner is 100% to blame in either scenario. Richardson presided over multiple unsuccessful GM's, so he obviously has to shoulder his share of the blame. Tepper is currently presiding over an unsuccessful GM, so he has to shoulder his share of the blame. 

[BPF]

Marty Hurney is the equivalent to Chris Weinke to me, 2 of the biggest mistakes in Panthers history and if I could alter just 2 things in the organizations history it would be to remove both of them from the books of time. If I could only change one it would be removing Hurney, he is awful at almost every aspect aside from the first round of the draft. 

As for this year, I think it will be a fun ride with low expectations. I started looking at the 2 absolute worse years in my fandom memory and we had some pretty big highs after both. 2001 we had to endure Weinke, but that made some changes in coaching staff and got us Jake and after Rodney got hurt, got us to that magically 2003 run. After the Clausen debacle and Fox's lame duck year, we got Cam. 4 years later another SB run. So at worse we may have to play the long ball for a few years, and if we can have some sustained success that would be better the roller coaster we've been on so long.

 

 

PS- all the lows have been with Hurney involvement, and the highs, but no back to back winning seasons. He is the problem.

[Basbear]

3 hours ago, stbugs said:

Especially at OL. I know people talk about the lack of WRs that Cam had in 2015, aside from a 1000 yard TE. Well, the OL was what helped. How do you think Ginn was getting open so much deep? Philly and even Funchess got open. That OL was ranked 2nd only behind the Cowboys in most rankings.

Hurney absolutely decimated the OL the past three years. Signing injured players, reaching for a bad T and ignoring interior OL. The entire interior OL from 2015 was let go or retired in a 2 year period and yet we drafted 0 replacements the past 3 years. Daley moved to LG and there was talk of trying Little there too because we have nothing there.

Gettleman was OK with us, but he added Turner, Norwell (UDFA), Williams (solid pre-injury) and Moton. Those 4 and Ryan Kalil were there before he was fired.

Im believing the OL will be better than most huddlers, even speaking on the depth part too. Ranking mid-pack by seasons end. I do worry the main point is only 5 block, may need some help at times. Next year is a HUGE  issues tho. 

[kungfoodude]

3 hours ago, Basbear said:

Im believing the OL will be better than most huddlers, even speaking on the depth part too. Ranking mid-pack by seasons end. I do worry the main point is only 5 block, may need some help at times. Next year is a HUGE  issues tho. 

You really think we will be better??? That is a bold statement. 

[jfra78]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

You really think we will be better??? That is a bold statement. 

We upgraded at LT the rest of the line is about the same.  

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

We upgraded at LT the rest of the line is about the same.  

I would say the interior of the line is worse, although the LT was a big upgrade. The depth guys are pretty bad. We will see. 

 

[jfra78]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

I would say the interior of the line is worse, although the LT was a big upgrade. The depth guys are pretty bad. We will see. 

 

I think some of the things they had to do last year to mask the inefficiencies at LT last season hurt the rest of the Line.