Just remember this is a multi step process

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Sgt Schultz said:

You may see that, but from my observations on this board, most fans (including ours) are not patient enough to suffer through a rebuild without questioning either 1) not keeping Cam, or 2) once he was released, not signing somebody....anybody.

Personally, I am not bothered by TB's contract.  I am bothered by the lack of performance.  But $20M was just Cam's amount for three years.  Truth is, had Cam had two years to go on his contract at $20M rather than one, we may not be having any of this conversation.  We'd probably be moving on the same plan just with #1 seeing the transition instead of #5. 

How can fans not have patience after they have suffered through what 4 winning seasons over the last 15 or so years?

Those of us who have had patience for years have grown impatient by the inability for the team to operate well on a consistent basis.

 

[CanadianCat]

34 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Why would he say that, you ask? 

Some noticeable percentage of this board would be insisting that we would be in playoff contention if we had somebody better than Allen or Grier, despite an OL that struggles to be mediocre and a defense that is still a couple of players away from being able to protect any lead

Some would say the coaching staff were morons for going into the season with Allen and Grier, given what we saw last year.  They would also be saying we should have signed somebody other than Allen or Grier.....heck, that Bridgewater guy was available.

Some would say during the week that they are all on board with tanking, then complain on game days and Mondays after each loss. 

Some would say we should have extended Cam

Some would say we should have addressed our two or three needs from last year and made another run at the playoffs, just like we had done every year since 2017

When Cam was released, some would have said if we didn't sign or draft a QB last offseason, that they were done watching this horrible team that has ruined their life

Some would have said several or all of these things

 

This is 100% accurate. 

Lots of people were PO'ed when we cut Newton and wanted a full out tank. But then after keeping it tight against the Raiders and getting to a 3-2 records half the board had playoff expectations. 

Fans typically dont have patience for a rebuild, especially when they dont know the 'plan' (which the general public never will). 

I have faith in this coaching staff come game day and really like them during the draft process. Given this past years success with draft picks Im cool with them trading back as well. 

 

But holy poo, if we draft a QB in the 2nd round people here will lose their fricken minds. 

[Toomers]

36 minutes ago, BrianS said:

What a great question!

Here are the FA's last year:

Hindsight doesn't count here.  At the time, Bridgewater seemed like the one with the most potential.   There is no way we were bringing in 38 year old Rivers or 43 year old Brady for a CLEAR rebuild.  Keep in mind, your team needs to be attractive.  Clear rebuild isn't attractive to many players.

Case Keenum?  Signed immediately for the Browns.  We had no chance.

Chase Daniel?  I'm not sure what the question is where "Chase Daniel" is the answer.

Andy Dalton?  He wasn't even available until after the draft!

Colt McCoy?  Same as Chase Daniel.

Mariota?  Signed immediately with the Raiders, we had no shot.  Shame, I think Mariota might have been ok. 

Driskel?  All kinds of terrible.

This was a crap year for FA QB's.  I mean, any time you're looking at a FA QB, they are going to be flawed.  If a guy has any sort of long term starting potential, he's going to be retained by his club or traded for something of value.  Then you have to find one you think fits your system and situation and possibly his flaws can be covered.

Yea, maybe we paid a premium to bring in a QB who knew the system we were going to implement with a clear rebuild on the table.  Maybe not.  How many of the guys making less are actually starting?

It was a crap sandwich of a situation that we tried to make the best of.

Keenum signed March 24th. Free Agency started March 18th. Hardly immediately. Or no chance at him

Dalton- The whole league knew they were taking Burrow and he would be available. 
 

 Mariota- signed day before TB on 3/25.

Heck Jamie’s only cost 1M and was available. He had as much a chance at becoming something as TB ever did. 
 

Why with a team that wasn’t going to contend, does a team spend 34M guaranteed on a player that had been a backup for 3 years. Kyle Allen could have won 3 games. Any of the above could have to. 

None of the other guys were signed to start. Which is why they got far, far less. Something you just can’t comprehend. They gave a backup enough money to set the team back a year(s) in money and a 3rd round pick. And now the coaches are having issues with his superior leadership on the field. As are most fans. 
 

   Hindsight? How many different ways do you need to be told this was a mistake from day one. Many posts by me, and plenty others are available if you would like to dispute it. Just because you don’t know any better doesn’t mean no one does. 

[CanadianCat]

I was ok with the Cam cut. I actually hoped that we would give Grier and Allen a chance, as it fit with the rebuild theme. 

Signing TB, well I was not pumped, but did understand that he should be able to jump into the system and help coach up the other players. 

But he is not the long term answer. He was given an opportunity and has failed. So we will move on but I dont think it HAS to be this year. If we could trade back and get a haul to help solidify the o-line and have picks for next year - well that would be hard to pass up. Given that scenario Im ok with TB next year. If we simply draft a non-QB top 5 then I will question the decision. 

[GoPanthers123]

Not too long ago we shut out Detroit, remember?  This is a 70% good team.  Meaning we need to upgrade remainder before we can really compete.

[Khyber53]

2 hours ago, thefuzz said:

Why would you say that?

Trotting out Allen or Grier, I preferred Grier if it would hasten Hurney's exit, and saving a poo ton of cap space while almost guaranteeing you a top 4 draft pick would have been the prudent thing to do.  We had tanked, and were ready for the next step, instead, we did half measures and still my fail our way to the exact same spot.

 

Nah man, there would have been a riot, starting here. I know we've been living in revisionist history for the past four years, but this place was all about GTFO for Ron and Kyle.

[panthers320]

I get that KK has not performed well. But I completely disagree with cutting him last year. We got rid of 3 DTs and 2 DEs from last year and brought in a bunch of draft picks and new people. Our returning players were Burns (in his second year) and Obada. Now it didn't work out but at the time I completely understand the move of not wanting to add 30mm in dead money (just to save 19mm for a net of -11mm) and having no leadership along the DL. Now after this year when we actually get some positive savings from cutting him, its a different story. 

[thefuzz]

19 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Nah man, there would have been a riot, starting here. I know we've been living in revisionist history for the past four years, but this place was all about GTFO for Ron and Kyle.

There should have been riots when Marty was brought back into the building.  There should have been riots when Ron and Marty were kept, when the team went through an ownership change.  There should have been riots when we are drafting inside the top 10 3 of 5 years.

Now you think that fans would riot over us choosing to smartly try to put the pieces back together after ONCE AGAIN Marty flew this plane into the side of the mountain?

If there weren't so many fans that thought that Teddy could all of a sudden be special, for no fuging reason, then there should have been riots when Teddy, Shaq, and Robby were signed, and KK was kept on the roster.

Nah, we got a bunch of dumbass fans who blindly think the front office really has a clue.

[Toomers]

3 hours ago, panthers320 said:

I get that KK has not performed well. But I completely disagree with cutting him last year. We got rid of 3 DTs and 2 DEs from last year and brought in a bunch of draft picks and new people. Our returning players were Burns (in his second year) and Obada. Now it didn't work out but at the time I completely understand the move of not wanting to add 30mm in dead money (just to save 19mm for a net of -11mm) and having no leadership along the DL. Now after this year when we actually get some positive savings from cutting him, its a different story. 

You obviously don’t understand if you think that’s how the salary cap works. The Panthers paid KK 13.5M this year that there was no reason to. And the 17M dead cap didn’t change at all. 

[panthers320]

3 minutes ago, Toomers said:

You obviously don’t understand if you think that’s how the salary cap works. The Panthers paid KK 13.5M this year that there was no reason to. And the 17M dead cap didn’t change at all. 

I was going of Spotrac's numbers so if they are wrong then so am I. But His cap hit was 19mm this year but has 30mm in dead cap if we cut them.

[panthers320]

I guess we could have dedicated him as a post 6/1 release and saved a whooping 125,000. What are we going to do with that? Such a completely inept decision to keep the only veteran rather than either have a -11mm cap cavings or 125,000 cap savings. Plus that also sends such a great message to all potential free agents...

[Toomers]

14 minutes ago, panthers320 said:

I was going of Spotrac's numbers so if they are wrong then so am I. But His cap hit was 19mm this year but has 30mm in dead cap if we cut them.

  They screwed something up. Try OTC. He had a 17.3M dead cap. Could have been a post-June 1 cut and it would have been just 6M this year and 11M in 2021. Giving him 13M more meant you still had the same dead cap hits, but are now out another 13M. They had Matt Kalil’s contract wrong for over a year so it’s not the first time they screwed up. 

 Seems like they added his salary from this year to his dead cap which isn’t how it works. This one is definitely on them.      

[panthers320]

7 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  They screwed something up. Try OTC. He had a 17.3M dead cap. Could have been a post-June 1 cut and it would have been just 6M this year and 11M in 2021. Giving him 13M more meant you still had the same dead cap hits, but are now out another 13M. They had Matt Kalil’s contract wrong for over a year so it’s not the first time they screwed up. 

 Seems like they added his salary from this year to his dead cap which isn’t how it works. This one is definitely on them.      

I stand corrected then. I was basing my opinion off of incorrect numbes.

[Beerfacedlegend]

Embrace the suck we will do nothing in free agency and suck in the draft and go 7-9 next year , what makes it different? Rhule wasn’t what I expected him to be . Hurney sucks . This team blows . I’ll give it one more year before I chose a different team to support