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DJ Moore graded out as the 24th best WR according to PFF

GoobyPls

By GoobyPls,
in Carolina Panthers

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Ricky Spanish Grand Master

Ricky Spanish

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19 minutes ago, BrianS said:

You're not thinking it through.  There were plays there for DJ that Teddy simply couldn't or didn't make.  Those don't figure in to his grade from what I understand.  The grades are based on plays where he was actually the target.

This is why an NFL arm is required to allow DJ to really be his best.  There were numerous examples of plays where DJ was in great position to make a big splash play and Teddy didn't even look at him.  An NFL arm will really make that offense scary because the deep threat is 100% real with our WR's.

You are incorrect. They grade each player and each play on an individual basis regardless if they were the target or not. 

So if DJ made a good release, had great separation, and got open 30 yards downfield, he would have received a positive grade on the play. On that same play, Teddy would have received a negative grade for not throwing it to DJ (If he had the time to make it to that progression).

The fact that he wasn't targeted does not hurt on the above example. HOWEVER, if he were targeted, his grade could go up depending on if he caught it, he made a great catch from a bad throw, he got great YAC, or scored a TD. His grade on the play would most likely stay the same if he just caught it and didn't do anything. His grade on the play would go down if he dropped it, caught it and ran backwards, or he fumbled. 

So, I will say that Teddy not targeting DJ most likely negatively impacted his overall grade, but not necessarily in the way that people think. Teddy didn't make DJ look worse, Teddy just didn't let DJ look as good as he could have. And I think we can all agree on that.

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

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2 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Reason 8754 never to use Pff as a legitimate source.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2020-wide-receiver-rankings

If Adams and Moore switched QBs, Moore would have close to 1800 yards.

Its pretty obvious that the people around here that criticize PFF the most understand it the least.

what is a better source?

Don't say the eye test, unless you have took the time to watch every snap, focused on that player, of every game, of all 23 players ahead of Moore on that list, while uniformly applying the same grading then any other source is less legitimate.

24 sounds bad but you have to remember there are 90+ starting receivers in the league (if you assume a 3wr set), so in some ways that would be like a top 10 ranking for a QB

Also his actually grade is really good, its not like rank 24 means you are bad and then 15 means you are good, you are basically looking at slight differences of good here.

I do agree somewhat that the QB can have some influence on the grade but not to the extent you are thinking, whether the QB throws him the ball or not he is receiving a grade.  If he runs a prefect route and creates separation he is going to get a positive grade regardless of what the QB does.  This is another reason that PFF is superior to a typical fan eye test, the typical fan just watches the ball and only forms an opinion of a player based on those handful of plays that they notice during the broadcast.

 

 

 

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

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2 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

No he’s not, Adams gets perfectly placed football by the mvp.  DJ had to make circus catches every time Teddy threw deep

Adams is arguably the best receiver in the NFL currently. 

Until Moore can run routes like Adams, he won't reach Adams' level. That ain't got poo to do with the QB. 

Furthermore, like it or not, Moore plays with a better set of receivers! Sure, Teddy missed a wide open Moore on an occasion or two, but it was Anderson that benefitted the least from Teddy's obviously lacking skill set. Teddy missed Robby on several occasions because he didn't time his throw correctly, including near the end zone (I remember Romo pointing it out). This is not to say that Moore isn't our most valuable receiver (which is also arguable), but his route running still needs improvement! I'd like his hands (and Curt's) to be better, but no one is perfect! But Adams is pretty damned good (when he is on the field)! 

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Ivan Knight-Jordan Newbie

Ivan Knight-Jordan

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PFF is garbage. Anyone defending it is lost. They are analytically biased, they use and created their own system to grade people that nobody else uses and pay the NFL to get mentioned. This isn’t like WAR in baseball that is actually proven and respected. Hell AB played less than half a season and they ranked him high as hell, gtfo. 

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

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1 minute ago, Ivan Knight-Jordan said:

PFF is garbage. Anyone defending it is lost. They are analytically biased, they use and created their own system to grade people that nobody else uses and pay the NFL to get mentioned. This isn’t like WAR in baseball that is actually proven and respected. Hell AB played less than half a season and they ranked him high as hell, gtfo. 

NFL franchises---probably all of them now---pay PFF for their services! And, they do it for a reason! They're a tool to be used in congruence with others, and I'm sure that professionals evaluate even more things within the context of each individual player.

Don't get their stats and grades confused with their overall rankings which are obviously a little more subjective.

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

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16 minutes ago, Ivan Knight-Jordan said:

PFF is garbage. Anyone defending it is lost. They are analytically biased, they use and created their own system to grade people that nobody else uses and pay the NFL to get mentioned. This isn’t like WAR in baseball that is actually proven and respected. Hell AB played less than half a season and they ranked him high as hell, gtfo. 

pretty obvious you dont' understand how their grading system works.

Their actually grading system is the opposite of analytical based, its and eye test.  

People should go to their website and actually read how it works.

Speaking of AB, their grades are based off of how they play for the snaps they do play.  Its not a culmination of stats.

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GoobyPls Mentor

GoobyPls

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24 minutes ago, top dawg said:

NFL franchises---probably all of them now---pay PFF for their services! And, they do it for a reason! They're a tool to be used in congruence with others, and I'm sure that professionals evaluate even more things within the context of each individual player.

Don't get their stats and grades confused with their overall rankings which are obviously a little more subjective.

Nfl franchises also use any/y, pro gamblers, other analytics guys like Warren Sharp ext...

 

doesn’t mean much 

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GoobyPls Mentor

GoobyPls

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13 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

pretty obvious you dont' understand how their grading system works.

Their actually grading system is the opposite of analytical based, its and eye test.  

People should go to their website and actually read how it works.

Speaking of AB, their grades are based off of how they play for the snaps they do play.  Its not a culmination of stats.

Alright tell me what PFF graded DJ on this specific play, and why?

image.jpeg.b09cb362ec493d41c3bae5f3d7b2f53e.jpeg
 

 

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GoobyPls Mentor

GoobyPls

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35 minutes ago, Ivan Knight-Jordan said:

PFF is garbage. Anyone defending it is lost. They are analytically biased, they use and created their own system to grade people that nobody else uses and pay the NFL to get mentioned. This isn’t like WAR in baseball that is actually proven and respected. Hell AB played less than half a season and they ranked him high as hell, gtfo. 

The problem with a lot of people is that they  don’t understand or watch football and lean on stuff like pff which gives zero context.

 

People also assume pff has some sort of computer doing these grades. All these grades are given out by former internet sports bloggers with biases watching the film once and then determining wether that play was positive or not and determining wether the play call intended that or not, or if the defenses is playing prevent or not, just so much goes into it, it’s impossible. They give positive grades for garbage time numbers for fug sakes

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