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Orlovsky on Trey Lance

Troys99x4

By Troys99x4,
in Carolina Panthers

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I 100% agree with this notion.

Ron and Marty did Cam NO FAVORS....however, Cam was part of that as well.  Lots of blame to go around over the past decade or so.

I'm going to slightly disagree with this.  Big picture, I think Ron Rivera was actually a good fit for Cam.  Rivera did in large part let Cam be Cam.  Both from a playing perspective and personality style.  I don't think many coaches would have done that and it was the only way you would have seen the good Cam.   Which we did. 

I think the biggest disservice they did to Cam was form a personnel stand point and building around him poorly. 

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WOW!! Grand Master

WOW!!

Posted
Posted
Just now, CRA said:

I'm going to slightly disagree with this.  Big picture, I think Ron Rivera was actually a good fit for Cam.  Rivera did in large part let Cam be Cam.  Both from a playing perspective and personality style.  I don't think many coaches would have done that and it was the only way you would have seen the good Cam.   Which he did. 

I think the biggest disservice they did to Cam was form a personnel stand point and building around him poorly. 

I agree with this.. 

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thefuzz Mentor

thefuzz

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, CRA said:

I'm going to slightly disagree with this.  Big picture, I think Ron Rivera was actually a good fit for Cam.  Rivera did in large part let Cam be Cam.  Both from a playing perspective and personality style.  I don't think many coaches would have done that and it was the only way you would have seen the good Cam.   Which he did. 

I think the biggest disservice they did to Cam was form a personnel stand point and building around him poorly. 

Can understand that stance, I just disagree with it.  Cam needed to be coached HARD to get him to his full potential, AND to extend his career in the league.

Ron and Co. were more than willing, as was Cam to use himself as a battering ram...everyone knows whats going to happen...everyone....and we still did it.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Can understand that stance, I just disagree with it.  Cam needed to be coached HARD to get him to his full potential, AND to extend his career in the league.

Ron and Co. were more than willing, as was Cam to use himself as a battering ram...everyone knows whats going to happen...everyone....and we still did it.

well, I was always a firm believer that if you saw Cam Newton achieve greatness in the NFL.......you would also see him have a shorter career than most that were able to climb to that tier.   I never believed in transitioning him to a guy that would play a long time. 

I wanted him to play Cam football in the NFL.  He did.  He was great.   We could of done more while he did it but we sucked at building a team around him that would win.    

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted (edited)

Any suggestion that Ron Rivera might have been the best coach to develop any quarterback is one I'm gonna be skeptical of.

I've also long felt that the promotion of Mike Shula was a turning point in the wrong direction for Newton. Going with another OC and leaving Shula as Newton's QB coach would have been a much better move.

if they were gonna go with Ken Dorsey though, they should have at least let him coach.

Edited by Mr. Scot
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WOW!! Grand Master

WOW!!

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Can understand that stance, I just disagree with it.  Cam needed to be coached HARD to get him to his full potential, AND to extend his career in the league.

Ron and Co. were more than willing, as was Cam to use himself as a battering ram...everyone knows whats going to happen...everyone....and we still did it.

The problem with this opinion is.. Cam didn't get hurt being a battering Ram.. He got hurt being a football player stopping a TD after a Int.. And then got hurt staying in the pocket behind a trash Oline in a blowout game. .

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Any suggestion that Ron Rivera might have been the best coach to develop any quarterback is one I'm gonna be skeptical of.

I've also long felt that the promotion of Mike Shula was a turning point in the wrong direction for Newton. Going with another OC and leaving Shula as Newton's QB coach would have been a much better move.

if they were gonna go with Ken Dorsey though, they should have at least let him coach.

that's adding words though.  "develop"

I said I think Ron was a good fit for Cam Newton.  A unicorn in almost every imaginable way.    

 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted
Just now, CRA said:

that's adding words though.  "develop"

I said I think Ron was a good fit for Cam Newton.  A unicorn in almost every imaginable way.    

Riviera "letting Cam be Cam" basically meant he could be as good as he was, but he wasn't going to get any better.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

The problem with this opinion is.. Cam didn't get hurt being a battering Ram.. He got hurt being a football player stopping a TD after a Int.. And then got hurt staying in the pocket behind a trash Oline in a blowout game. .

well, he got hurt being a great football player.  I think Cam was always more of a great football player than great QB. Like The Golden Calf of Bristol in some respects just even more physically gifted.   Tom Brady doesn't get hurt on that play because Tom Brady ain't running that guy down and making the diving tackle.   Brady focused on playing QB. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, CRA said:

well, he got hurt being a great football player.  I think Cam was always more of a great football player than great QB. Like The Golden Calf of Bristol in some respects just even more physically gifted.   Tom Brady doesn't get hurt on that play because Tom Brady ain't running that guy down and making the diving tackle.   

You have to remember cumulative effect here too.

Football players' bodies don't break down just because of one hit here or there. You also have to account for the number of shots that they take over time.

A particular hit might not look bad right when you see it, but those things add up.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Riviera "letting Cam be Cam" basically meant he could be as good as he was, but he wasn't going to get any better.

Letting Cam be Cam also means not trying to make him fit in your box.....which in large part would have prevented Cam from having success IMO.   Cam was literally the best player in the NFL at one point.  Letting Cam be Cam worked.   Just came down could you put bodies around him that he needed. 

Plus, there is the personality aspect.   Not just the playing style aspect.  Ron let Cam be Cam there....which was also a big aspect of things.   That likely could of gone wrong for a lot of teams as well. 

Coaches IMO often get treated like QBs.  Too much credit and too much blame often.  Ron Rivera is a very solid coach.   Ron wasn't the problem.  Personnel IMO often was. 

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WOW!! Grand Master

WOW!!

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, CRA said:

well, he got hurt being a great football player.  I think Cam was always more of a great football player than great QB. Like The Golden Calf of Bristol in some respects just even more physically gifted.   Tom Brady doesn't get hurt on that play because Tom Brady ain't running that guy down and making the diving tackle.   

Cam doesn't get hurt on that play if KB gave a poo...

I do blame the staff for not figuring out sooner that Cam could have used a different scheme then Shulers and different talent then big lumbering WR who can't catch . 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, CRA said:

Letting Cam be Cam also means not trying to make him fit in your box.....which in large part would have prevented Cam from having success IMO.   Cam was literally the best player in the NFL at one point.  Letting Cam be Cam worked.   Just came down could you put bodies around him that he needed. 

Plus, there is the personality aspect.   Not just the playing style aspect.  Ron let Cam be Cam there....which was also a big aspect of things.   That likely could of gone wrong for a lot of teams as well. 

You don't have to try and make him be something he's not to develop him.

You just have to try and help him be the best of what he is.

Again, I don't think Rivera was the guy to do that.

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