Scott Fitterer: We want Sam Darnold to just flush what's happened

[Agent Blue]

Actually, Sam needs to not be Sam.

Sam needs to become a new Sam. Sam 2.0

If Sam stays the same Sam we all know, he is going to stink up the joint.

Sam already has a ton of pressure on himself alone.

He knows this is his last chance to make it in this league as a starting QB.

 

[Toomers]

11 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

The argument was ANY year we had Cam which is now proven to be wrong. However in 2014 Benjamin had over 1000 yards and 9 TDs (he was solid until his mom passed sadly) Olsen had over 1000 yards and 6 TDs, and Cotchery had over 500 yards beating out Mims and his 350.... That’s 2 more 1000 yard receivers than the Jets had. It’s not that we gave Cam a ton of weapons (we didn’t and his career got cut short before of his shitty offensive line), it’s that the Jets had no weapons AND a terrible coach for a young QB. I know it’s a matter of opinion, but it can easily be argued.

 So it’s still stats. How do you figure the QB they played with factors into those? One QB carried a WR1 that couldn’t get on the field to an MVP season and we should compare that to WRs who played with a QB that not one year ago was the subject of this nugget. “Now that we got Robbie Anderson away from Darnold, he’s gonna be great” And now, After an awful season, that same QB is the answer. Makes complete sense. 

  The point is you can’t just use stats without context. You’re going off one year and one of the three was injured which only seems to be an excuse when convenient. 

   
 

    

Edited May 12, 2021 by Toomers

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

 So it’s still stats. How do you figure the QB they played with factors into those? One QB carried a WR1 that couldn’t get on the field to an MVP season and we should compare that to WRs who played with a QB that no one year ago was the subject of this nugget. “Now that we got Robbie Anderson away from Darnold, he’s gonna be great” And now, After an awful season, that same QB is the answer. Makes complete sense. 

  The point is you can’t just use stats without context. You’re going off one year and one of the three was injured which only seems to be an excuse when convenient. 

   
 

    

You can’t use stats. Fine. Darnold is the best QB in the league. Convince me otherwise without using any sort of stats.

Gase was the coach. He struggles to use players correctly/put them in a position to succeed. That’s why they cut Bell, that’s why Tannehiil thrived when he left Gase, it’s why the Dolphins are getting better every year now that he left Miami. 
 

Blaming a young QB for the struggles the Jets have had is a stretch. They were struggling before they drafted Darnold and the coach could always bench him, especially if his job was on the line. The fact still remains the Jets were winless without Darnold playing these past three years so it’s clearly not solely on him.

[Toomers]

7 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

You can’t use stats. Fine. Darnold is the best QB in the league. Convince me otherwise without using any sort of stats.

Gase was the coach. He struggles to use players correctly/put them in a position to succeed. That’s why they cut Bell, that’s why Tannehiil thrived when he left Gase, it’s why the Dolphins are getting better every year now that he left Miami. 
 

Blaming a young QB for the struggles the Jets have had is a stretch. They were struggling before they drafted Darnold and the coach could always bench him, especially if his job was on the line. The fact still remains the Jets were winless without Darnold playing these past three years so it’s clearly not solely on him.

And of course you take it to mean all stats when I clearly am talking about this specific scenario and your use of stats in it. With no context. 
 

  The best WR Darnold has played with just came to Carolina and had his best season with a QB who they couldn’t get rid of fast enough. Why is that not valid. Seems much more relevant than players with different QBs. 
 

   Gase also went to the playoffs with Tannehill in MIA. How many times did Darnold make it. 

[ForJimmy]

7 minutes ago, Toomers said:

And of course you take it to mean all stats when I clearly am talking about this specific scenario and your use of stats in it. With no context. 
 

  The best WR Darnold has played with just came to Carolina and had his best season with a QB who they couldn’t get rid of fast enough. Why is that not valid. Seems much more relevant than players with different QBs. 
 

   Gase also went to the playoffs with Tannehill in MIA. How many times did Darnold make it. 

Gase’s Jets team in winless without Darnold, yet he is the problem? Anderson thriving in Carolina is another example of a player doing better once leaving Gase. Where is Gase now?

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Gase’s Jets team in winless without Darnold, yet he is the problem? Anderson thriving in Carolina is another example of a player doing better once leaving Gase. Where is Gase now?

Getting tacos...

[Toomers]

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Gase’s Jets team in winless without Darnold, yet he is the problem? Anderson thriving in Carolina is another example of a player doing better once leaving Gase. Where is Gase now?

So all that about the players means nothing now? It’s all about the coach? Did Mike Shula/Ron Rivera save Ted Ginns career or did Cam? 

   And Flacco played as well, if not better, than Darnold in his limited time. Wouldn’t this also have to consider how poor the backup QBs were that took his place. Again. Context.
 

   

   

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

So all that about the players means nothing now? It’s all about the coach? Did Mike Shula/Ron Rivera save Ted Ginns career or did Cam? 

   And Flacco played as well, if not better, than Darnold in his limited time. Wouldn’t this also have to consider how poor the backup QBs were that took his place. Again. Context.
 

   

   

Zero wins without the player you think is the issue. Zero. Go read the reactions to the Jets depth chart on Mr Scott’s thread. It will help open your stubbornly closed eyes...

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Zero wins without the player you think is the issue. Zero. Go read the reactions to the Jets depth chart on Mr Scott’s thread. It will help open your stubbornly closed eyes...

  My stubbornly closed eyes? LOL  

 The only thing that stat shows is how bad some of the backups were as well. 
 

And I don’t need depth charts and cherry-picked excuses to evaluate Darnold. Flacco looked better against NE and SD.  Especially NE. I just don’t choose to discount what has ACTUALLY happened in favor of “hopeful” scenarios. 
 

[ForJimmy]

9 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  My stubbornly closed eyes? LOL  

 The only thing that stat shows is how bad some of the backups were as well. 
 

And I don’t need depth charts and cherry-picked excuses to evaluate Darnold. Flacco looked better against NE and SD.  Especially NE. I just don’t choose to discount what has ACTUALLY happened in favor of “hopeful” scenarios. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/Article/Mel-Kiper-Sam-Darnold-trade-tremendous-move-for-Carolina-Panthers-New-York-Jets-163786073/Amp/
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jetswire.usatoday.com/2021/04/16/ryan-kalil-adam-gases-system-hurt-sam-darnold-other-jets/amp/
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/nfl/panthers/.amp/gm-report/mcshay-kiper-riddick-believe-sam-darnold-is-finally-in-position-to-succeed
 

There is some context by analyst who get paid to do this kind of thing. There is a trend here...  Any of them stating Darnold had a good coach/talent around him and he is the reason the Jets were so bad? Let me know when you find any.

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/Article/Mel-Kiper-Sam-Darnold-trade-tremendous-move-for-Carolina-Panthers-New-York-Jets-163786073/Amp/
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jetswire.usatoday.com/2021/04/16/ryan-kalil-adam-gases-system-hurt-sam-darnold-other-jets/amp/
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/nfl/panthers/.amp/gm-report/mcshay-kiper-riddick-believe-sam-darnold-is-finally-in-position-to-succeed
 

There is some context by analyst who get paid to do this kind of thing. There is a trend here...  Any of them stating Darnold had a good coach/talent around him and he is the reason the Jets were so bad? Let me know when you find any.

Context from people that get paid by who? You and every gullible fan who needs someone to explain stuff to them. What are their credentials? Just woke up one day and said “I know football”.  
 

    Last year, many people that get paid said that the Panthers had found the answer at QB. Even went as far as proclaiming TB the best QB in the division. Why would I ever consider opinions from guys in their moms basement over my own. I don’t have to post other people’s opinions to justify mine. 
 

    And I’ve  never said the Jets were a good environment. Gase is awful. Team sucked. But that doesn’t erase all of his decision making issues he’s had since USC. Somehow this organization is going to make him a star? Based on what? Teddy’s performance last year? 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

Context from people that get paid by who? You and every gullible fan who needs someone to explain stuff to them. What are their credentials? Just woke up one day and said “I know football”.  
 

    Last year, many people that get paid said that the Panthers had found the answer at QB. Even went as far as proclaiming TB the best QB in the division. Why would I ever consider opinions from guys in their moms basement over my own. I don’t have to post other people’s opinions to justify mine. 
 

    And I’ve  never said the Jets were a good environment. Gase is awful. Team sucked. But that doesn’t erase all of his decision making issues he’s had since USC. Somehow this organization is going to make him a star? Based on what? Teddy’s performance last year? 

Are you serious? Damn it. I don’t necessarily think he will be a star. I wanted Justin Fields personally. I just think he is still a very much unknown because few QBs would have been successful in his situation. His turnovers are a major concern. We may actually have similar views on this the whole time...  The other poster Gooby was praising Bowles/Gase and the talent around him stating he was the reason they were terrible. I felt a need to defend him for that.

[GoobyPls]

19 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

We get it, you hate Darnold with no data backing it up. He single handily ruined the Jets franchise and got Gase and Bowles fired. You want another year? Cam’s rookie year had Steve Smith, Ted Ginn, Lafell, Hixon, and prime Greg Olsen. It’s really not that hard. 
Blaming the QB for a RB not getting screen passes is beyond dumb. That’s my point. Bell’s receiving yards dropping had to do with play calling not Darnold.

Oh so you found ZERO examples of any analyst or commentator backing you nonsense. Zero as in the number of wins the Jets had with Darnold not playing these past 3 years.

I don’t even know Darnold to hate him lol. I just know he’s a bad QB and not the future.

 

Ginn wasn't there Cam’s rookie year, Hixon and Lafell lol, your gonna snap something receiving that hard.

 

A RB getting dump offs has nothing to do with the play call, it’s not Bell or Gase’s fault Darnold can’t read the field. Also weren’t people on this forum blaming Cam for Mccaffrey lack of production.

 

Using wins now? Have you seen his record? its horrific. The only two games the jets win last year were vs a browns team with no WR due to COVID and rams team that Goff was imploding. Nothing to due with Darnold, they started Darnold cause they wanted to tank for Trevor and  Flacco would most likely messed that up.

I can go get more analytical if you want, it’s not gonna look good for Darnold

 

 

 

 

 

[Toomers]

7 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Are you serious? Damn it. I don’t necessarily think he will be a star. I wanted Justin Fields personally. I just think he is still a very much unknown because few QBs would have been successful in his situation. His turnovers are a major concern. We may actually have similar views on this the whole time...  The other poster Gooby was praising Bowles/Gase and the talent around him stating he was the reason they were terrible. I felt a need to defend him for that.

And I only disagreed with one very specific point. WR talent. Which was a horrible trip down memory lane. Neither was that much better to even matter. I don’t think he will be the answer. The trade was worth the shot. But passing on Fields and then guaranteeing him 19M for next is a huge risk(and mistake). 
 

     It’s a tough needle to thread. It either “slows” down for him or the Panthers are in trouble.