This seems oddly familiar

[Icege]

10 hours ago, Varking said:

Just a quick look at these and I see all the same things: Talk. These examples didn't show him staying late when nobody else is there anymore or showing up so early the lights aren't on and he's the only one in the building. I don't see him putting in the work outside of normal business hours likes Fields has. You are also implying I am saying that he didn't put in any work or that he didn't study at all. I suggested he could have done more. I've also repeatedly said I believe in Darnold. I have also been happy about having him here since the trade. 

The Jets did not give him real competition at the position. Also, I have NEVER given Adam Gase a pass. I also haven't prepared to blame Matt Nagy at all. That is something another user suggested. I think there's a bit of confusion here between my replies to you and my replies to another user. 

You can't Linville this one with double talk bubba 

I'm all for being excited for Fields. Hell, I'm excited for Fields! I'm excited for him to put the rest the "one read QB" narrative that was clearly false. The issue here though is that you're proposing that Sam's issues were his lack of effort, work ethic, etc while saying that if Fields has similar issues that it can't be the same from him. However, from all reports, Darnold's preparation & work ethic was never the issue. The issue was and always has been the talent that he was forced to work with as well as the coaching staff. Fields has better talent (though admittedly not that much better) but his coaching staff is clearly better than what Darnold had to work with. We've only talked about offensive supporting cast when Fields has a defense backing him that Darnold never had anything close to that.

Gase has 1 winning season out of 4. Matt has 1 winning season out of 3, but those other 2 seasons were 8-8. Gase's? 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 2-14. The lack of consistency in the criticism is glaring.

[Icege]

11 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I tend to believe that although Darnold was largely set up to fail by a bad coaching staff, most of his issues are between his ears. If he struggles/fails here, I think that will end up firming up my belief that is the case. If he is the ultra rare case of a bust to success story, I will firmly believe, as many seem to, that the Jets staff and situation was historically bad. 

I tend to agree with Varking that I would have probably still drafted Fields(or Slater) at 8. Either of those situations probably helps us as a franchise more than Horn. That is nothing against Horn at all, just more what I value over CB. 

I was REALLY hoping for Slater with Sewell gone, but Horn was the guy so now I've got his back as well. Slater's been doing incredibly well with the Chargers from what reports are saying, stonewalling Bosa twice in 1v1s.

[1usctrojan]

4 hours ago, Icege said:

You can't Linville this one with double talk bubba 

I'm all for being excited for Fields. Hell, I'm excited for Fields! I'm excited for him to put the rest the "one read QB" narrative that was clearly false. The issue here though is that you're proposing that Sam's issues were his lack of effort, work ethic, etc while saying that if Fields has similar issues that it can't be the same from him. However, from all reports, Darnold's preparation & work ethic was never the issue. The issue was and always has been the talent that he was forced to work with as well as the coaching staff. Fields has better talent (though admittedly not that much better) but his coaching staff is clearly better than what Darnold had to work with. We've only talked about offensive supporting cast when Fields has a defense backing him that Darnold never had anything close to that.

Gase has 1 winning season out of 4. Matt has 1 winning season out of 3, but those other 2 seasons were 8-8. Gase's? 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 2-14. The lack of consistency in the criticism is glaring.

In support of your post…one example of many.

https://www.newyorkjets.com/news/jets-qb-sam-darnold-real-dude-who-owns-a-tireless-work-ethic

[1usctrojan]

Can’t sleep, so thought I’d throw this in……you can find quotes like this about a lot of players from coaches, teammates about rookies, or first year players.
 

https://www.fanduel.com/theduel/posts/jets-wr-coach-had-hilarious-nsfw-quote-about-sam-darnold-01dd8zzdw8je

Edited August 8, 2021 by 1usctrojan

[Varking]

8 hours ago, Icege said:

Gase has 1 winning season out of 4. Matt has 1 winning season out of 3, but those other 2 seasons were 8-8. Gase's? 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 2-14. The lack of consistency in the criticism is glaring.

Are you trying to paint the two coaches in similar light? Because they shouldn't be. Outside of neither one being able to develop a QB so far the similarities end there. 

 

[Icege]

3 hours ago, Varking said:

Are you trying to paint the two coaches in similar light? Because they shouldn't be. Outside of neither one being able to develop a QB so far the similarities end there. 

Not at all. I am showing how bad Darnold's situation was with the level of coaching and talent he received as the youngest starting player since the merger due to statements like, "If Justin Fields fails in the NFL it isn't going to be for a lack of effort, talent or preparedness. The kids saying and doing all the right things."

That leaves three options *if* Fields ends up not being successful (we are in agreement that the kid is gonna be good): health concerns, surrounding talent, and coaching.

Sam's lack of success in New York was not due to a lack of work ethic & preparedness. It could have been due to talent, but he definitely had health concerns (never played a full season), awful surrounding talent outside of Robby, and horrendous coaching. That's my reason for hammering on this.

[SizzleBuzz]

22 minutes ago, Icege said:

Sam's lack of success in New York was not due to a lack of work ethic & preparedness. It could have been due to talent, but he definitely had health concerns (never played a full season), awful surrounding talent outside of Robby, and horrendous coaching.

Long list there...

[1usctrojan]

Don’t discount Jets fans…..they’re already questioning if their young rookie QB is a bust……after their own fan fest, they are brutal.

[Varking]

4 hours ago, Icege said:

Not at all. I am showing how bad Darnold's situation was with the level of coaching and talent he received as the youngest starting player since the merger due to statements like, "If Justin Fields fails in the NFL it isn't going to be for a lack of effort, talent or preparedness. The kids saying and doing all the right things."

That leaves three options *if* Fields ends up not being successful (we are in agreement that the kid is gonna be good): health concerns, surrounding talent, and coaching.

Sam's lack of success in New York was not due to a lack of work ethic & preparedness. It could have been due to talent, but he definitely had health concerns (never played a full season), awful surrounding talent outside of Robby, and horrendous coaching. That's my reason for hammering on this.

I think health is the only thing that is going to derail him currently. The Bears coaching staff isn’t world beaters but they are more than fine. The talent around him will be the same. Not world beaters but fine. I’d take our weapons over the Bears for sure. Outside of Allen Robinson the rest are inconsistent and you’re hoping to see progress. We have already seen CMC, DJ and the Sun God perform well for multiple seasons. I think this is the year Sam breaks 20 touchdown passes in a season and I’m hoping to see 63-66% completions out of him. Those would be things to see to show he’s progressing as a pro and going into next year he should be taking off at the right time for himself, when he’d be due for a new contract. 

[glenwo2]

5 hours ago, 1usctrojan said:

Don’t discount Jets fans…..they’re already questioning if their young rookie QB is a bust……after their own fan fest, they are brutal.

So glad I'm not part of that Negative-Nancy crowd anymore.

Though we have our own Nancies here but still....

[kungfoodude]

5 hours ago, 1usctrojan said:

Don’t discount Jets fans…..they’re already questioning if their young rookie QB is a bust……after their own fan fest, they are brutal.

Historically, if the Jets draft a QB, it's a pretty safe indicator he will be a bust.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Varking said:

I think health is the only thing that is going to derail him currently. The Bears coaching staff isn’t world beaters but they are more than fine. The talent around him will be the same. Not world beaters but fine. I’d take our weapons over the Bears for sure. Outside of Allen Robinson the rest are inconsistent and you’re hoping to see progress. We have already seen CMC, DJ and the Sun God perform well for multiple seasons. I think this is the year Sam breaks 20 touchdown passes in a season and I’m hoping to see 63-66% completions out of him. Those would be things to see to show he’s progressing as a pro and going into next year he should be taking off at the right time for himself, when he’d be due for a new contract. 

Completion percentage is a good thing to keep an eye on. Captain Checkdown was stellar in this offense last year completing passes and Darnold is a sub-60% completion percentage guy in his career(high of 61.9% in 2019). Anything less than what you said(63ish) should be a big concern. We should expect him to be far more efficient in his first few games here, given how our offense is structured. 

As a gunslinger, I don't think he will will ever be a top QB in the league in that statistic but he shouldn't be near the bottom of the league like he was in NY.