Trade Down or Trade Away Player(s)

[Toomers]

5 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

If a team traded for CMC, AND took the guaranteed money we're looking at less pick value and that is not worth it as the trading team is going to look at picking up the guaranteed money as trade value give to us as well. 

Trading CMC is not the option, fielding a competent offense is, and trading #6 would recoup more value than trading a back that's on a big deal, has several years left, and finished the last two years on IR.

His base salary is guaranteed at 8.1M for 2022. The team trading for him would have to pay that. The remaining 18M would be dead cap that hits immediately unless after June 1 which would split it over two years. Which doesn’t really matter because it’s gone before free agency next year anyhow. 

[grimesgoat]

22 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

wrong

cutting and trading a player have different cap implications.

CMC's cap hit this year if he plays:  $14.3m

CMC's cap hit if cut before June 1st:  $26.6m (12.3m loss in cap space)

CMC;s cap hit if traded before June 1st:  $18.5m (4.2m loss in cap space)

Part of that 26.6m in dead money that your reference is $8.1m in guaranteed salary for this upcoming year, guaranteed salary can be traded and most likely the next team would account for.

If we trade him after June 1st the numbers change even more

CMCs cap hit this year if traded after June 1st: $5.7m, which would be a 2022 cap savings of $8.7m.

Of course that would leave a cap hit of $12.8m for 2023, but that would actually be less then the $17.7m if he played in 2023.

Christian McCaffrey Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac

click on the red arrow to the right of the 2022 year and spotrac will break all of this down for you.

 

 

 

I didn't mention the post-june 1 actions because your just kicking the can down the road. 

Otherwise we seem to agree on everything except the pre-june 1 2022 trade option. A trade will cost 4.2m (assuming the other team picks up all of the base salary),  With the 4.2m plus the salary of the picks we receive, it may cost us 6m or so to replace CMC.  If we can replace CMC productivity for 6m or so, sounds like a plan.  

Will CMC be hurt this year or will he be healthy.  Let us know so we can plan accordingly.

[grimesgoat]

7 minutes ago, Toomers said:

   I see you’re still trying to teach algebra to cats. How can someone not understand the simple math involved with the salary cap? And, as you said, the site does the work for you and they still have no clue. As they call you wrong and silly for being 100% correct. 

lol.  I used to enjoy reading your posts.  Now I just think of you as huge douche.  Sad.

[Toomers]

9 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

lol.  I used to enjoy reading your posts.  Now I just think of you as huge douche.  Sad.

I’m devastated…lol

    Was I wrong. Did you not call his take silly then conveniently leave out the main points that were relevant as you stated your own false statements? Let me guess. You enjoyed them until I said you were wrong about something. That’s how the Huddle works. If you want someone to pat you on the head when you’re wrong…look elsewhere. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Toomers

[thefuzz]

36 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

and exactly how is that wrong?

Christian McCaffrey Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac

click the red x to the right of the 2022 year and it will clearly list the cap implications for the different cut and trade scenarios

Sorry, I read that as "it would only cost us 4M to trade him" I didn't realize you were talking about a total cap loss of 4M...not an additional 4 over the top of the 14.

 

[Michael G]

We are listening to trade offers on CMC and everyone else according all the reports I have heard. I think AJ Bouye may be on the block, but don't know for sure. I'm not certain what we'd get for him. If we try to trade for another QB then there is no telling who we might package into an offer.

[AU-panther]

2 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

I didn't mention the post-june 1 actions because your just kicking the can down the road. 

Otherwise we seem to agree on everything except the pre-june 1 2022 trade option. A trade will cost 4.2m (assuming the other team picks up all of the base salary),  With the 4.2m plus the salary of the picks we receive, it may cost us 6m or so to replace CMC.  If we can replace CMC productivity for 6m or so, sounds like a plan.  

Will CMC be hurt this year or will he be healthy.  Let us know so we can plan accordingly.

i get what you are saying about not being able to replace CMC for 6m this year, but then you save $17.7m next year since you ate all of the cap hit this year.  Would you prefer CMC for the next two years or an extra $13.5m in cap space for the next two years plus potential draft picks.

Also would you give up $4.2m for an extra 1st rounder this year?  2nd rounder?  3rd rounder?

All the June 1st talk can get confusing for fans so sometimes this best way to decide if a deal is smart or not is to look at the total cost.

If we trade CMC this year his total cap hit will be $18.5m.  (either spread or not)

If we keep CMC this year and then trade him next his 2022 cap hit will be 14.3m (2022 cap hit) plus 12.8m dead money cap hit in 2023 for a total of $27.1m.

If we keep CMC the next two years and then trade him in 2024 his cap hit will be 14.3m(2022 cap hit) plus $17.7m (2023 cap hit) plus $7.1 (remaining dead money) for a total of $38.5m.

So here are your choices:

Trade CMC this year for a total cap cost of $14.3m and hope to get picks.

Let CMC play one more year then trade him in 2023 for a total cap cost of $27.1m.

Let CMC play two more years then trade him in 2024 for a total cap cost of $38.5m.

When you factor in that there isnt a very good chance we aren't going to be that good this upcoming year it makes a lot of financial sense to go ahead and trade him.

 

 

 

[grimesgoat]

8 minutes ago, Toomers said:

I’m devastated…lol

    Was I wrong. Did you not call his take silly then conveniently leave out the main points that were relevant as you stated your own false statements? Let me guess. You enjoyed them until I said you were wrong about something. That’s how the Huddle works. If you want someone to pat you on the head when you’re wrong…look elsewhere. 

Don't want you devastated, but some self-realization wouldn't hurt.

I did not call AU-Panther's take silly.  He was not on my radar.  The silly take is the 'let's trade CMC' take without the contractual details in place.  The details are important.

And you completely mischaracterize my motivations.  I don't mind being wrong.  I admitted the additional cost to trade CMC is around 6m vs. 12m.  I was never looking for any head-patting or huddle validation.  I'm just here to share my thoughts on our team and what we may be able to do to improve.

What I can't figure out is why are you here? 

 

[grimesgoat]

4 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

i get what you are saying about not being able to replace CMC for 6m this year, but then you save $17.7m next year since you ate all of the cap hit this year.  Would you prefer CMC for the next two years or an extra $13.5m in cap space for the next two years plus potential draft picks.

Also would you give up $4.2m for an extra 1st rounder this year?  2nd rounder?  3rd rounder?

All the June 1st talk can get confusing for fans so sometimes this best way to decide if a deal is smart or not is to look at the total cost.

If we trade CMC this year his total cap hit will be $18.5m.  (either spread or not)

If we keep CMC this year and then trade him next his 2022 cap hit will be 14.3m (2022 cap hit) plus 12.8m dead money cap hit in 2023 for a total of $27.1m.

If we keep CMC the next two years and then trade him in 2024 his cap hit will be 14.3m(2022 cap hit) plus $17.7m (2023 cap hit) plus $7.1 (remaining dead money) for a total of $38.5m.

So here are your choices:

Trade CMC this year for a total cap cost of $14.3m and hope to get picks.

Let CMC play one more year then trade him in 2023 for a total cap cost of $27.1m.

Let CMC play two more years then trade him in 2024 for a total cap cost of $38.5m.

When you factor in that there isnt a very good chance we aren't going to be that good this upcoming year it makes a lot of financial sense to go ahead and trade him.

 

 

 

I believe your numbers are fine, but I respectively disagree on your conclusion.  We are not competing for a superb owl next year, but we are trying to develop a QB and OL.  Whether that QB is Darnold or a Rookie, a player like CMC could be invaluable to that development.  If a QB's options are hand it to Chubba or throw it to Anderson, he is doomed before he even starts.  And no OL will want to block for that shitshow.  But having some competency/skill/hope is, in my opinion, critical and worth the 14m price tag.  Sure he could get hurt, but he managed to play 48 out of 48 games from 2017-2019 and he's extraordinarily productive when he's out there.  Even if he only plays 10-12 games, he could be instrumental in helping the OL and QB improve throughout the year.

2023 is when I'd make my decision on him (unless of course someone offered me a deal I could not refuse).

[DaveThePanther2008]

Here's the question for all you Cap geniuses and I mean that in no disrespect.

Say we don't trade him for cap reasons.   He goes down in 2022 AGAIN.  Now we are stuck with a commodity that will be severely devalued.

Maybe all things considered and we take a chance to get rid of him, regardless of the cost, now.  Possibly get a 2nd or 3rd for him.  

I love CMC and hope his two years of injuries are behind him and whether he stays here or not I hope he has a long and productive career.

Fitterer has said, we will listen to any offer.  

 

 

[Toomers]

9 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Don't want you devastated, but some self-realization wouldn't hurt.

I did not call AU-Panther's take silly.  He was not on my radar.  The silly take is the 'let's trade CMC' take without the contractual details in place.  The details are important.

And you completely mischaracterize my motivations.  I don't mind being wrong.  I admitted the additional cost to trade CMC is around 6m vs. 12m.  I was never looking for any head-patting or huddle validation.  I'm just here to share my thoughts on our team and what we may be able to do to improve.

What I can't figure out is why are you here? 

 

You posted incorrect information that directly contradicted his information, exact contract details, and knowledge. The details are important. And you called everyone out while you didn’t understand the details yourself. 
 

   And on to step 2 of denial. The why are you here is right out of the butthurt Huddle playbook. Last I checked, Cam was on this team at the end of the season. And countless posters said I would be gone after predicting that Rhule’s tenure would be a disaster. I was a Steelers troll for suggesting exercising Darnolds option was a colossal mistake. Should I leave for being correct?

[AU-panther]

1 minute ago, grimesgoat said:

I believe your numbers are fine, but I respectively disagree on your conclusion.  We are not competing for a superb owl next year, but we are trying to develop a QB and OL.  Whether that QB is Darnold or a Rookie, a player like CMC could be invaluable to that development.  If a QB's options are hand it to Chubba or throw it to Anderson, he is doomed before he even starts.  And no OL will want to block for that shitshow.  But having some competency/skill/hope is, in my opinion, critical and worth the 14m price tag.  Sure he could get hurt, but he managed to play 48 out of 48 games from 2017-2019 and he's extraordinarily productive when he's out there.  Even if he only plays 10-12 games, he could be instrumental in helping the OL and QB improve throughout the year.

2023 is when I'd make my decision on him (unless of course someone offered me a deal I could not refuse).

fair point, but the way I look at it is that if I trade him now I save a total of $12.8m over two years that I can spend on the OL that might help said young QB more.  Also I have a draft a pick that I can use to further help said young QB.

 

[glenwo2]

On 2/13/2022 at 8:39 PM, rayzor said:

There isn't anyone on this team I would call untradeable. All are replaceable. Everyone is expendable. And we're gonna lose anyways. Few would be around by the time we're a serious contender anyways. 

Just don't trade away future picks. Or do. I don't care. We're fugged anyways for a few years if we're gonna be stupid enough to keep Rhule around.

You know what the worst part of all this is?

We'll be having the same arguments/debates/conversations NEXT OFFSEASON, too. 

[AU-panther]

13 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Here's the question for all you Cap geniuses and I mean that in no disrespect.

Say we don't trade him for cap reasons.   He goes down in 2022 AGAIN.  Now we are stuck with a commodity that will be severely devalued.

Maybe all things considered and we take a chance to get rid of him, regardless of the cost, now.  Possibly get a 2nd or 3rd for him.  

I love CMC and hope his two years of injuries are behind him and whether he stays here or not I hope he has a long and productive career.

Fitterer has said, we will listen to any offer.  

 

 

That is a valid thought.

You could make the argument that if he plays well this year and stays healthy his trade value might go up a little but that is extremely risky.

At this point teams could convince themselves that his recent injuries are just bad luck.  If he gets hurt again I think teams will view him totally different and value could tank considerably like you stated.

Also the longer you wait the older he is and that is never good for a RB.

Also the longer you wait the closer his contract is to the end so a team would have to pay him market price which would be considerable if he is playing well.  As it stands right now his contract for a new team would only be 4yrs/44m which almost none guaranteed.   That is actually a selling point.