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Florio: Panthers understand they have to give up 3 firsts, another pick, and 1-2 (Chinn, Burns, Brown, Horn)

Kraybrothers

By Kraybrothers,
in Carolina Panthers

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Smittymoose Experienced

Smittymoose

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Just now, SmokinwithWilly said:

Not what I was thinking when I said that. Probably should have said playoffs contender instead. 

You said "Super Bowl contender or even playoffs contender." What's the difference between a Super Bowl contender and a "playoffs contender" in your mind, if it doesn't mean a contender to make the playoffs?

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amcoolio Veteran

amcoolio

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3 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

We want to win but also recognize that 1 player cannot do it all. This is a team sport and if you lack the ability to build the team around the 1 player, you end up with great offensive numbers and a 4-12 record. Or for an even better example, look at Cam. We never built a consistent winner with someone who many on this message board say is a HoF QB. 

Having a QB is the most important piece but if you lack the ability to build around it, what difference does it make? FAs aren't coming to Carolina to win a SB. I have my doubts the league would even let him after all this mess. This is just an entertainment company and they can influence the outcome of games without consequences. We are going to have to pay people to come here. We are not a Super Bowl contender right now. We're not a playoff contender. Yeah, you've got the one big piece, but you've crippled yourself in every other area required to build around it. 

Again, you literally just described the Bengals last year and look what season they had

Conversely, take teams like Cleveland or Denver, who have "really deep, well rounded" teams and look at the year they just had.

A lot of you are severely short sighted. An infusion of actual, meaningful QB play can do wonders for a franchise, especially the weapons we already have on offense. Our defense was on the field way too much and constantly put in shitty situations and still had a good year. Our offensive line can be tweaked and we have some decent pieces there already. Even if we trade for Watson we have enough to land a left guard in free agency and next year the cap opens up quite a bit.

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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14 minutes ago, Smittymoose said:

You said "Super Bowl contender or even playoffs contender." What's the difference between a Super Bowl contender and a "playoffs contender" in your mind, if it doesn't mean a contender to make the playoffs?

Serious threat to win a Super Bowl or a real threat to get in the playoffs without winning their division is what I was thinking. The division winner gets into the playoffs no matter how terrible their record. It's possible to get in at 5-12. We could have won our division this year with our record if the other teams were bad enough. That's not a playoff contender, that's a division winner. Does it happen often? No, but it does happen. If we were to get into the playoffs in 2022 with a losing record in a really bad NFCS, it would be a one and done because this team isn't good enough and having DW behind a porous OL and a gutted defense won't change that. Backing into the playoffs as the winner of a terrible division doesn't mean you're actually a good team, it just means you were the best of the worst. In '08, the year Brady went on IR, the Patriots missed the playoffs at 11-5 while Cleveland got in at 8-8. Did the real playoff contender go to the playoffs or just a division winner? That's just one of several instances. 

But if we want to talk about a playoff contender as any team that just wins their division, I still don't think this team wins enough games to beat an average to above average team in our division. 2022 will likely see DW sitting multiple games, leaving either Darnold or PJ to QB this team with Rhule as HC. That's not a winning formula as we have already seen. I figure we're looking at 6 games with DW at QB, after a 10 game suspension from the NFL for making the shield look bad. That makes 2022 a wasted year. 2023 other teams will have had the opportunity to fix some of their issues as well, including pursuing any FA QBs or trading for one, and we're probably going to have Rhule for year 4 and possibly 5, then it's time to negotiate for a new contract for DW. You have to hope at that point he still wants to be in Carolina and doesn't want to go for a shot at rings or just flat out hates it here. 

8 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

Again, you literally just described the Bengals last year and look what season they had

A lot of you are severely short sighted. An infusion of actual, meaningful QB play can do wonders for a franchise, especially the weapons we already have on offense. Our defense was on the field way too much and constantly put in shitty situations and still had a good year. Our offensive line can be tweaked and we have some decent pieces there already. Even if we trade for Watson we have enough to land a left guard in free agency and next year the cap opens up quite a bit.

And if the Bengals had traded for Burrow instead of drafting him, they wouldn't have drafted Jamarr Chase who was a huge part of their success this season. Would they have had the success they did without Chase? Having a meaningful QB is important, but you have to be able to put pieces around him as well. Our defense won't look the same next year if we trade for DW. Burns and Chinn could both be gone, Reddick, Gilmore and Jackson too. That's a lot to lose on defense. We get Horn back, if he isn't part of the trade. 

I'm not saying DW isn't a good QB because he is. But I don't think that he alone, with Matt Rhule as HC, behind a porous oline, a gutted defense, and our cap situation is enough to carry this team deep into the playoffs. Other teams in our division will try and get better too. They don't all plan on staying bottom dwellers. Manning was traded to Denver and they were ready to win it all now. So was Brady. So was Stafford. We are not SB contenders right now. The only reason we're contenders to win our division in 2022 is because the other teams are just as bad, for now. 

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