Baker Mayfield watch

[Mr. Scot]

 

[SazmoRanger]

13 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

He only got a good coach in year 3 and 4.  Hugh and Kitchen were there before that.  He couldn't hit OBJ (according to you) so where is all of this other talent that made him so great?  Landry who was a FA until like mid/late May this year?  Their TE??  Chubb was solid, but CMC is pretty good too right?  They had Garrett on defense and a decent CB in Ward.  I just don't think that Browns team was as "loaded" as everyone thinks.  They were solid, but we definitely have some pieces here as well.  Plus OBJ only played in like 7 games and Chubb missed time as well.    

I’m not here to say how good all those guys are, but how are they compared to our guys? I personally like OBJ more than Moore, but for argument sake, lets call them a wash. Landry is better than Anderson. Njoku is better than any TE we have on our roster. Sure, lets say McCaffrey is better than Chubb. Chubb is just a notch under McCaffrey but they also had Hunt who is 100x better than any backup RB we have. But most importantly, they had a top 5 offensive line. 
 

If any top 15 QB had that offense they’d be staring down a SB run. He had more to work with in Cleveland than 80% of NFL QBs have, including Carolina. 
 

If he can’t be the man with that roster, I don’t want him and neither should anybody else. Sure, he’s better than Darnold, but that’s like saying I’m better at running marathons than a paraplegic. 
 

Quit trading away assets and taking snaps away from other players. Roll with Darnold and let Corral learn at the backup position this year. 

[Ricky Spanish]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

It's fun to look at the leverage that each team has in this situation:

Cleveland's leverage:

• Baker is better than any QB currently on our roster.
• Panthers have a HC on the hotseat and Baker is an upgrade at the most important position.
• They have another potential suitor for Baker in Seattle.

Our Leverage:

• Cleveland needs to clear cap space for the future and rolling any savings over would be beneficial for them.
• They burned the bridge with Mayfield and he is never playing for them again.
• If no one trades for Baker then Cleveland has to eat his entire salary while he doesn't play for them next season.
• We just drafted a rookie QB with high upside that we like.
• We have a QB who costs the exact same as Baker so there's no point paying two QBs the same amount of money and playing only one.
• Mayfield is only under contract for one more year.
• Mayfield is coming off a down year.
• Mayfield is coming off of offseason surgery.
• Due to the Watson deal, CLE is hurting for Draft capital.
• Baker, while an upgrade, is enough of a question mark that you can't sell the farm for him.

I'm sure I'm missing some points for both sides but it looks like we have way more leverage in these negotiations on the surface.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Ricky Spanish said:

It's fun to look at the leverage that each team has in this situation:

Cleveland's leverage:

• Baker is better than any QB currently on our roster.
• Panthers have a HC on the hotseat and Baker is an upgrade at the most important position.
• They have another potential suitor for Baker in Seattle.

Our Leverage:

• Cleveland needs to clear cap space for the future and rolling any savings over would be beneficial for them.
• We just drafted a rookie QB with high upside that we like.
• We have a QB who costs the exact same as Baker so there's no point in making a trade for that money.
• They burned the bridge with Mayfield and he is never playing for them again.
• Mayfield is only under contract for one more year.
• Mayfield is coming off a down year.
• Mayfield is coming off of offseason surgery.
• Due to the Watson deal, CLE is hurting for Draft capital.
• Baker, while an upgrade, is enough of a question mark that you can't sell the farm for him.

I'm sure I'm missing some points for both sides but it looks like we have way more leverage in these negotiations on the surface.

Jonathan Jones says we've made Cleveland "the best offer".

Not sure I like the sound of that.

[ForJimmy]

13 minutes ago, SazmoRanger said:

I’m not here to say how good all those guys are, but how are they compared to our guys? I personally like OBJ more than Moore, but for argument sake, lets call them a wash. Landry is better than Anderson. Njoku is better than any TE we have on our roster. Sure, lets say McCaffrey is better than Chubb. Chubb is just a notch under McCaffrey but they also had Hunt who is 100x better than any backup RB we have. But most importantly, they had a top 5 offensive line. 
 

If any top 15 QB had that offense they’d be staring down a SB run. He had more to work with in Cleveland than 80% of NFL QBs have, including Carolina. 
 

If he can’t be the man with that roster, I don’t want him and neither should anybody else. Sure, he’s better than Darnold, but that’s like saying I’m better at running marathons than a paraplegic. 
 

Quit trading away assets and taking snaps away from other players. Roll with Darnold and let Corral learn at the backup position this year. 

OBJ was only there for 7 games in 2020 and Chubb missed several (2).  Njoku has talent but hands that are like Ginn (it also looks like he only started 5 games that year, Hooper was their 1).  Landry is a good slot but he isn't some elite WR.  The OL is definitely the difference.  He had a good OL with Landry as his number 1 for over half the season and Willis was a rookie at LT.  I'm not saying we will have a top 10 OL, but we have a top rookie LT also with a great RT and added some solid pieces in Bozeman and Corbett.  The 2020 Browns roster isn't light years ahead of ours IMO.

Here is a breakdown of that Brown's roster with games started and stats

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2020_roster.htm

 

[Mr. Scot]

Again, not something I like hearing

[Verge]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Jonathan Jones says we've made Cleveland "the best offer".

Not sure I like the sound of that.

It's not that bad. 

[Mr. Scot]

After all the posturing, if we end up paying more of Darnold's salary than Cleveland does Mayfield, ugh

Edited June 14, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[SazmoRanger]

8 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

OBJ was only there for 7 games in 2020 and Chubb missed several (2).  Njoku has talent but hands that are like Ginn (it also looks like he only started 5 games that year, Hooper was their 1).  Landry is a good slot but he isn't some elite WR.  The OL is definitely the difference.  He had a good OL with Landry as his number 1 for over half the season and Willis was a rookie at LT.  I'm not saying we will have a top 10 OL, but we have a top rookie LT also with a great RT and added some solid pieces in Bozeman and Corbett.  The 2020 Browns roster isn't light years ahead of ours IMO.

Here is a breakdown of that Brown's roster with games started and stats

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2020_roster.htm

 

Chub missing 2 games is “several”? Why bring that up when we have a RB that has missed 23 games in 2 years? Hell, you made my point about TE. Hooper and Njoku is 1000x better than all of our TEs. My point is even if our roster is EQUAL to the 2020 Browns(it’s not), why do you think Baker can come in here and do something when he’s proven he can’t with an equal roster with better coaches? 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Verge said:

It's not that bad. 

I hope not.

Not really liking the scenario John floated either, though...

Edited June 14, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[mrcompletely11]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

Unless Fitt thinks he could be the guy depending on how he plays. He also may give Corral time to develop while keeping the team competitive (yes I know you don’t like him sitting, but it’s not uncommon for coaches to do this). He could also help develop players like Marshall and Tremble by having a competent QB throwing them passes. There are some pros/cons to signing him. The main thing is don’t overpay him or give away much to acquire him.

Looking over the top 15 qbs in the draft and I see less then 5 that sat and then played to become all pros.  I see 2 (Cousins, Rodgers) that was "developed".  The development angle of qbs is simply a myth and if it was a thing you would see more teams doing it.  They simply dont.  Why didnt buffalo sit Allen, Cards Murray?  How about Carr? 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

After all the posturing, if we end up paying more of Darnold's salary than Cleveland does Mayfield, ugh

So I mid/late pick and Darnold??  If we both are paying the same amount of our QB's contract, why not just trade them?

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

After all the posturing, if we end up paying more of Darnold's salary than Cleveland does Mayfield, ugh

Weeeeeee, lets give up more draft capital for a moron on a 1 year deal.  Godalmighty we are our own worst enemy

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

So I mid/late pick and Darnold??  If we both are paying the same amount of our QB's contract, why not just trade them?

Paying the same amount I could deal with.

Us paying more of Darnold's salary than Cleveland pays of Mayfield's though would feel like we lost the staring contest.