Panthers hire Josh McCown as QB coach

[razorwolf]

JMO

Id be willing to give up for the right QB (which I think is CJ Stroud) 2023: 1st round and (1) of our 2nd round; 2024: 1st round, (mid round to late round), maybe include a conditional pick!

Edited February 14, 2023 by razorwolf
Forgot a line

[Growl]

8 hours ago, razorwolf said:

JMO

Id be willing to give up for the right QB (which I think is CJ Stroud) 2023: 1st round and (1) of our 2nd round; 2024: 1st round, (mid round to late round), maybe include a conditional pick!

the most you’d be willing to give up for a franchise QB is one mid first rounder and some middle round fluff

gonna be a no for me dawg

         -every potential trade partner

[raleigh-panther]

13 hours ago, Carl Spackler said:

He's sure as fug not a low end No. 1 WR.

How does he compare to Justin Jefferson, AJ Brown, Lamb, Adam’s, Kupp and the rest of the top 10?

if you could have DJ or one of the top 10 receivers as a GM, would you choose him ?

Look, DJ is tough, he is durable…he has improved in route running every single year and makes tough catches….

but a game breaker, he is not, even when CMC was on the team so all attention couldn’t go to him 

his flaws have been talked about many times, even by Steve smith. 

he is a serviceable mid level number 1 receiver but in teams like the Chiefs and KC, he is a WR2

[CRA]

11 hours ago, Carl Spackler said:

Yeah, he's far more respected among non-Panther fans. When you consider the QBs he's had to endure, and still put up big yardage, yeah. I'd go top-16. Probably around 12-15.

I think he is in that massive clump of around 15-30.  

Once you make it past a somewhat clear cut top 10ish....you got the Lockett, Juedy, Higgins, Godwin, Cooper, Evans, McLaurin, and on and on types.  I mean, I think Panther fans put him at the top of that clump.  Not sure other fanbases put him at the top of it. 

I think DJ brings a clear cut level of consistency at the WR position.  But on an ideal roster, you would want him playing the Tee Higgins role across from the Chase. 

[rayzor]

12 hours ago, Carl Spackler said:

Yeah, he's far more respected among non-Panther fans. When you consider the QBs he's had to endure, and still put up big yardage, yeah. I'd go top-16. Probably around 12-15.

 

11 hours ago, ECHornet said:

I like DJ, but he’s more in the 25-35 range imo. 

first thing i see when i google "best NFL WRs 2022"

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/the-top-wide-receivers-in-the-nfl-2022/

Quote

27) DJ Moore, Carolina Panthers

Just like Aiyuk, Samuel, and Waddle, Moore is a fantastic athlete that has leveraged his explosiveness and speed to turn into a great after-catch player but still lacks the finer details to be a high-level route-runner.

His hands have been an issue, but he does make up for it by reeling in passes that “should” have been incomplete. Though he can moonlight as a running back at times, he doesn’t have the strength of Aiyuk or Samuel and is a little more limited there. Nevertheless, Moore has been a big asset for Carolina and can threaten to score at any time.

and on PFF

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-wide-receiver-rankings-and-tiers-2022

Quote

25. D.J. MOORE, CAROLINA PANTHERS

Moore has battled bad quarterback play his entire NFL career. His rate of catchable targets over the past three seasons, in particular, ranks 62nd of 78 qualifying wide receivers. Despite that, Moore has still managed to rack up the fourth-most explosive receptions of 15-plus yards (84). The 2018 first-round pick earned a top-30 PFF grade in each of the past three seasons, with his best being an 82.2 mark in 2019.

 

[Carl Spackler]

45 minutes ago, rayzor said:

 

first thing i see when i google "best NFL WRs 2022"

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/the-top-wide-receivers-in-the-nfl-2022/

and on PFF

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-wide-receiver-rankings-and-tiers-2022

 

Moore has battled bad quarterback play his entire NFL career. His rate of catchable targets over the past three seasons, in particular, ranks 62nd of 78 qualifying wide receivers. Shouldn't penalize someone for bad QB play. His performance is not poor, nor is he a low-level WR1, if he gets wide open and the ball is delivered into the second row of the stands.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Carl Spackler

[rayzor]

11 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Moore has battled bad quarterback play his entire NFL career. His rate of catchable targets over the past three seasons, in particular, ranks 62nd of 78 qualifying wide receivers. Shouldn't penalize someone for bad QB play. His performance is not poor, nor is he a low-level WR1, if he gets wide open and the ball is delivered into the second row of the stands.

his ceiling so far is unknown because of his QB. it's all just potential. can't judge on potential. have to judge on what is known and demonstrated. what measure should be used to fit him into the top 15? what would make him better than those who have shown to produce more?

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, rayzor said:

his ceiling so far is unknown because of his QB. it's all just potential. can't judge on potential. have to judge on what is known and demonstrated. what measure should be used to fit him into the top 15? what would make him better than those who have shown to produce more?

Also, the top tier guys? Take a Nuk Hopkins before his recent issues….was a freak show with Davis Mills.  He didn’t need Watson to make him elite.  

Moore’s ceiling IMO isn’t just limited by poor QB play.  He doesn’t have insane route running, hands or freak tools you see with the elite 1s.  DJ is just a well rounded good WR.  

from what we have seen to date, I think DJ is best described as having a high floor.  Everyone loves DJ.   Saying he is a 16-32 ish #1 isn’t hate. 

[rayzor]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Also, the top tier guys? Take a Nuk Hopkins before his recent issues….was a freak show with Davis Mills.  He didn’t need Watson to make him elite.  

Moore’s ceiling IMO isn’t just limited by poor QB play.  He doesn’t have insane route running, hands or freak tools you see with the elite 1s.  DJ is just a well rounded good WR.  

from what we have seen to date, I think DJ is best described as having a high floor.  Everyone loves DJ.   Saying he is a 16-32 ish #1 isn’t hate. 

true. the best WRs show up regardless of who is throwing the ball. 

[ECHornet]

25 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Moore has battled bad quarterback play his entire NFL career. His rate of catchable targets over the past three seasons, in particular, ranks 62nd of 78 qualifying wide receivers. Shouldn't penalize someone for bad QB play. His performance is not poor, nor is he a low-level WR1, if he gets wide open and the ball is delivered into the second row of the stands.

He doesn't get open as well as you're portraying here. This site ranked him 89th in the NFL among wide receivers and tight ends at getting open in 2022: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nfl-receiver-rankings/

[CRA]

20 minutes ago, ECHornet said:

He doesn't get open as well as you're portraying here. This site ranked him 89th in the NFL among wide receivers and tight ends at getting open in 2022: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nfl-receiver-rankings/

do they have something similar for other positions? I went looking and couldn't find it. 

[ECHornet]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

do they have something similar for other positions? I went looking and couldn't find it. 

Not sure. I stumbled on that link when I googled wide receiver rankings last night. 
 

I was exploring a thought I was having about trading for Tee Higgins. Ha

[Carl Spackler]

47 minutes ago, rayzor said:

true. the best WRs show up regardless of who is throwing the ball. 

Steve Smith sucked then? 500 yards receiving in 2010. Did he take the year off?

Edited February 14, 2023 by Carl Spackler

[Carl Spackler]

44 minutes ago, ECHornet said:

He doesn't get open as well as you're portraying here. This site ranked him 89th in the NFL among wide receivers and tight ends at getting open in 2022: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nfl-receiver-rankings/

How much of that is the offensive scheme's fault?