Training Camp Day 1

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, KSpan said:

Looks like he's Miles away.

[WUnderhill]

Man I’m a Bryce stan and have been since pre draft and I don’t see what the problem is with analyzing a throw. The db was clearly in a position to time a big hit as the ball arrived, which is legal depending on the hit and as long as he times it right. I’m pretty sure the defenseless receiver rule is you can’t hit a defenseless player in the head or with your helmet, but you can still lay big hits legally as they are catching the ball if you avoid those things.

For me that doesn’t mean it’s a poorly thrown ball or whatever, but it’s ok to look at it and say that it looks like something could be improved because in a game Chark might get lit up there. The route could have been slightly off. The throw could have been slightly off. It could have all been perfect and everybody was doing their jobs.

I’m just glad Bryce walked into training camp solo today so we didn’t have to deal with people analyzing how small he looked beside some other player.

[BlackPanther22]

I see y'all have been spending the bulk of this thread arguing about this throw. But from this angle I think it looks clear that Taylor got beat because Chark had inside leverage and that Woods came in trialing the throw. From the other angle it did look like it was sandwiched in between two guys charging at Chark but I think this makes it look clearer.

From the angle Woods was coming in from had he made contact and not let up even in a in game scenario he'd probably get hit with PI I'd think because he'd probably would've made contact before the ball hit Chark.  

Edited July 26, 2023 by BlackPanther22

[trucpfan]

15 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Man I’m a Bryce stan and have been since pre draft and I don’t see what the problem is with analyzing a throw. The db was clearly in a position to time a big hit as the ball arrived, which is legal depending on the hit and as long as he times it right. I’m pretty sure the defenseless receiver rule is you can’t hit a defenseless player in the head or with your helmet, but you can still lay big hits legally as they are catching the ball if you avoid those things.

For me that doesn’t mean it’s a poorly thrown ball or whatever, but it’s ok to look at it and say that it looks like something could be improved because in a game Chark might get lit up there. The route could have been slightly off. The throw could have been slightly off. It could have all been perfect and everybody was doing their jobs.

I’m just glad Bryce walked into training camp solo today so we didn’t have to deal with people analyzing how small he looked beside some other player.

I agree it’s something that can and will be improved but truthfully it’s his first practice if he improves slightly from what we saw today he’ll be dropping dimes all over the field. It definitely seems like that to me wouldn’t you say? 

[ForJimmy]

23 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Man I’m a Bryce stan and have been since pre draft and I don’t see what the problem is with analyzing a throw. The db was clearly in a position to time a big hit as the ball arrived, which is legal depending on the hit and as long as he times it right. I’m pretty sure the defenseless receiver rule is you can’t hit a defenseless player in the head or with your helmet, but you can still lay big hits legally as they are catching the ball if you avoid those things.

For me that doesn’t mean it’s a poorly thrown ball or whatever, but it’s ok to look at it and say that it looks like something could be improved because in a game Chark might get lit up there. The route could have been slightly off. The throw could have been slightly off. It could have all been perfect and everybody was doing their jobs.

I’m just glad Bryce walked into training camp solo today so we didn’t have to deal with people analyzing how small he looked beside some other player.

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/
 

1. A receiver attempting to catch a pass who has not had time to clearly become a runner. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player

[ForJimmy]

17 minutes ago, BlackPanther22 said:

I see y'all have been spending the bulk of this thread arguing about this throw. But from this angle I think it looks clear that Taylor got beat because Chark had inside leverage and that Woods came in trialing the throw. From the other angle it did look like it was sandwiched in between two guys charging at Chark but I think this makes it look clearer.

From the angle Woods was coming in from had he made contact and not let up even in a in game scenario he'd probably get hit with PI I'd think because he'd probably would've made contact before the ball hit Chark.  

Much better angle. Thanks for the clip!

[WUnderhill]

3 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/
 

1. A receiver attempting to catch a pass who has not had time to clearly become a runner. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player

The part you quoted is just part of defining the defenseless posture. You have to go down to part B to see what hits are illegal to players in a defenseless posture.

Edit to add: The video in that link is helpful too. They show an example of a legal hit to a defenseless receiver who is trying to catch a ball.

Edited July 27, 2023 by WUnderhill

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

The part you quoted is just part of defining the defenseless posture. You have to go down to part B to see what hits are illegal to players in a defenseless posture.

Edit to add: The video in that link is helpful too. They show an example of a legal hit to a defenseless receiver who is trying to catch a ball.

I was just showing it not simply a hit to the helmet. That’s a different penalty. You can’t lay out a WR as he is catching the ball. He must become a runner first so he has a chance to absorb or avoid the impact.

[CPcavedweller]

5 hours ago, Captroop said:

Looked like from the 20 to the 35, so 45 yards through the air?

In live practice with pads 25 may have popped that ball out. He pulled up before the ball ever got to Shenault.

[WUnderhill]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I was just showing it not simply a hit to the helmet. That’s a different penalty. You can’t lay out a WR as he is catching the ball. He must become a runner first so he has a chance to absorb or avoid the impact.

You aren’t reading the rule right. Not all hits to defenseless players are illegal. He doesn’t have to become a runner first to hit him. Read that whole page and watch the video. Part B defines what is an illegal hit to a defenseless player. Part A is just defining what is a defenseless player.

“Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

1. forcibly hitting the defenselessplayer’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenselessplayer by encircling or grasping him
2. lowering the head and making forcible contact with the crown or ”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenselessplayer’s body
3. illegally launching into a defenselessopponent. It is an illegal launch if a player (i) leaves both feet prior to contact to spring forward and upward into his opponent, and (ii) uses any part of his helmet to initiate forcible contact against any part of his opponent’s body.”

[Jaxel]

 

This guy basically recorded everything lol.

[ForJimmy]

4 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

You aren’t reading the rule right. Not all hits to defenseless players are illegal. He doesn’t have to become a runner first to hit him. Read that whole page and watch the video. Part B defines what is an illegal hit to a defenseless player. Part A is just defining what is a defenseless player.

“Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

1. forcibly hitting the defenselessplayer’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenselessplayer by encircling or grasping him
2. lowering the head and making forcible contact with the crown or ”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenselessplayer’s body
3. illegally launching into a defenselessopponent. It is an illegal launch if a player (i) leaves both feet prior to contact to spring forward and upward into his opponent, and (ii) uses any part of his helmet to initiate forcible contact against any part of his opponent’s body.”

My bad, I see what you are saying. A clean tackle as the ball touches Chark would be fair game. It helps if I read the full rule and not stop halfway down…

[pantherclaw]

8 hours ago, therealmjl said:

Lol at jaycee horns “body” not being built for the distance.
 

He’s huge and plays physical. He’s had two freak injuries, pipe down with that slander.

I chose to ignore his stupid rant.  

Basically anybody whom posts like that doesn't know football. 

[WUnderhill]

12 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

My bad, I see what you are saying. A clean tackle as the ball touches Chark would be fair game. It helps if I read the full rule and not stop halfway down…

No worries, it’s not super clear that you need to keep reading with how they word it at the top.