Hey guys, it's 2011 not 2015.

[CRA]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah...at this point you're just bullsh-tting.

lol, wut? 

Ron is a defensive coordinator.   He hired Mike Shula to develop Cam Newton.  He hired an OC that would play to Cam's strengths.   Which is why Carolina brought the zone and RPO heavy scheme into the NFL.   That's what Ron did. 

You tell me what Ron would do to develop Bryce then.  Because all I did was repeat the only example we got. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

lol, wut? 

Ron is a defensive coordinator.   He hired Mike Shula to develop Cam Newton.  He hired an OC that would play to Cam's strengths.   Which is why Carolina brought the zone and RPO heavy scheme into the NFL.   That's what Ron did. 

You tell me what Ron would do to develop Bryce then.  Because all I did was repeat the only example we got. 

I know you did.

That's why you lost.

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I know you did.

That's why you lost.

You asked a question about what Ron Rivera would do to develop Bryce? Why? Who knows.  But I answered based on what Ron has done.  You steered it there. 

Answer your on question then.  What would your villain Ron do.  Because clearly you are bullshitting and not even wanting to talk about what you claim to want to discuss. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

You asked a question about what Ron Rivera would do to develop Bryce? Why? Who knows.  But I answered based on what Ron has done.  You steered it there. 

Answer your on question then.  What would your villain Ron do.  Because clearly you are bullshitting and not even wanting to talk about what you claim to want to discuss. 

If trusting Ron Rivera to develop a young quarterback is a point you really want to defend, you're behind the eight ball to begin with.

That said, you've admitted freely that you like defending unpopular points just for sh-ts and giggles. I'm pretty sure that's what you're doing here, because this one's pretty far out there

As to what I think Ron would do, he'd do what he always does and hire the wrong guy for the job. His staffing choices tended to be just as bad as his roster/death chart choices, if not worse.

[CRA]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If trusting Ron Rivera to develop a young quarterback is a point you really want to defend, you're behind the eight ball to begin with.

That said, you've admitted freely that you like defending unpopular points just for sh-ts and giggles. I'm pretty sure that's what you're doing here, because this one's pretty far out there

As to what I think Ron would do, he'd do what he always does and hire the wrong guy for the job. His staffing choices tended to be just as bad as his roster/death chart choices, if not worse.

I mean, you are projecting an argument out there.   Which is why I said it was weird to even ask that. 

Ron didn't develop Cam.  He hired people to do that.  Ron was a defensive guy.   Which is the model you would want for a defensive HC. 

Cam went on rewrite the history books as rookie.  Probably has some records that will hold for decades simply because of how unique he was.  You said Cam had one good season.  It was the best window in our franchises history. Arguing against your narrative here simply because I think it is bad and wrong. 

Ron was flawed.  Few coaches would have had the success w/ Cam Ron did. Because the NFL isn't a place where guys like Cam were allowed to flourish.  Ron watered Cam to be full Cam.  And that was always going to be the best outcome.   

[Mr. Scot]

20 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, you are projecting an argument out there.   Which is why I said it was weird to even ask that. 

Ron didn't develop Cam.  He hired people to do that.  Ron was a defensive guy.   Which is the model you would want for a defensive HC. 

Cam went on rewrite the history books as rookie.  Probably has some records that will hold for decades simply because of how unique he was.  You said Cam had one good season.  It was the best window in our franchises history. Arguing against your narrative here simply because I think it is bad and wrong. 

Ron was flawed.  Few coaches would have had the success w/ Cam Ron did. Because the NFL isn't a place where guys like Cam were allowed to flourish.  Ron watered Cam to be full Cam.  And that was always going to be the best outcome.   

Cam did have one great season as far as wins, a couple of good ones and several mediocre ones. Statistically he had several good seasons, but stats don't win games.

That's why wins and losses aren't a quarterback stat. They're a team stat, and a coaching stat.

As to the argument that other coaches wouldn't have done a better job with Newton...yeah, good luck with that one

(Andy Reid says hi)

[CRA]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Cam did have one great season as far as wins, a couple of good ones and several mediocre ones. Statistically he had several good seasons, but stats don't win games.

That's why wins and losses aren't a quarterback stat. They're a team stat, and a coaching stat.

As to the argument that other coaches wouldn't have done a better job with Newton...yeah, good luck with that one

(Andy Reid says hi)

yeah, this is you trying to work your way out of silly statement.  Which is why you are now adding "as far as wins" once you were called on that.  And it still doesn’t work. 

Because that means a 12-4 Pro Bowl season is mediocre based off wins with your qualifying statement.   Or 11-5 is meh.  As far as wins. 

yeah, most NFL coaches aren't going to roll out and implement a college scheme to suit a player.  Which is why Cam Newton and the Panthers were the ones to really bring that heavy into the league.   How many attempted such pre-2011.  And then you saw a trend because.....well, it worked so well.   The Cam era was unique and impactful in many ways. 

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, this is you trying to work your way out of silly statement.  Which is why you are now adding "as far as wins" once you were called on that. 

Because that means a 12-4 Pro Bowl season is mediocre based off wins with your qualifying statement.   Or 11-5 is meh.  As far wins. 

yeah, most NFL coaches aren't going to roll out and implement a college scheme to suit a player.  Which is why Cam Newton and the Panthers were the ones to really bring that heavy into the league.   How many attempted such pre-2011.  And then you saw a trend because.....well, it worked so well.   The Cam era was unique and impactful in many ways. 

Nah. Reality still applies

You're correct on one thing though. Most coaches aren't going to implement a college scheme for their quarterback... because it doesn't work at the pro level.

That's why we had one great season, a couple of good ones and a bunch of mediocre ones.

What you're praising Rivera for is the reason why he failed.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Wundrbread33]

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, this is you trying to work your way out of silly statement.  Which is why you are now adding "as far as wins" once you were called on that. 

Because that means a 12-4 Pro Bowl season is mediocre based off wins with your qualifying statement.   Or 11-5 is meh.  As far wins. 

yeah, most NFL coaches aren't going to roll out and implement a college scheme to suit a player.  Which is why Cam Newton and the Panthers were the ones to really bring that heavy into the league.   How many attempted such pre-2011.  And then you saw a trend because.....well, it worked so well.   The Cam era was unique and impactful in many ways. 

Yeah he’s being inconsistent. Hard to have a discussion. Waste of time imo. 

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

Yeah he’s being inconsistent. Hard to have a discussion. Waste of time imo. 

Nope.

[CRA]

37 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Nah. Reality still applies

You're correct on one thing though. Most coaches aren't going to implement a college scheme for their quarterback... because it doesn't work at the pro level.

That's why we had one great season, a couple of good ones and a bunch of mediocre ones.

What you're praising Rivera for is the reason why he failed.

Rookie of the year, Pro Bowls, All Pro, MVP, Super Bowl, most successful era of franchise history…..and you saying it doesn’t work. 

Cam shatters the record book as a rookie - you claim that should be deemed  mediocre because of wins 

Cam goes 12–4 or 11-5 and you claim that too is mediocre…..because….well, because….

So how many wins do you want to attach to a season before it would be acceptable to call a year better than mediocre or decent?  Because you about to rewrite some narratives on a bunch QBs. 

[CRA]

In his 17 year career, Dan Marino won more than 12 games once in his career. Essentially  just decent/mediocre seasons by him in 16 of them.    And has a worse playoff win% than Cam 

Imagine if Mr Scott wrote his Hall of Fame introduction.   “What are we doing here, this guy had one great season and was a meh the rest of his time”

[ForJimmy]

[OUCPFL]

18 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Things that work at those levels don't necessarily work at the pro level.

As it was, we got one great season and a bunch of decent to mediocre ones.

As soon as other teams figured out how to counter what we were doing in 2015, we had no answers.

THIS. He needed to get better from a pure QB standpoint and Rivera had zero interest in that. I don't care what that man CRA says. We needed better offensive coaches to help him better throw from the pocket.