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Brock Purdy and Bryce Young

tukafan21

By tukafan21,
in Carolina Panthers

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Physically there's no argument there. Cam was made in a dang lab.

I guess my point is, do you think Bryce would look a lot better in that situation than this one?

I honestly don't know.

I don't know if that system and surrounding talent would've been enough. I'm afraid he might need a Niners or Dolphins type situation.

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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Shanahan alone makes a HUGE difference! Even the screens are different. Why does it seem like our screens require a guy to make a defender miss right away, while Deebo and CMC seem to have a Cadre of blockers in front of them on their screens? That's play design and timing. That's creating the matchups you want instead of guessing the defense. Completely different situations. 

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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5 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Purdy is asked to make a couple of high caliber throws a game. And he usually makes them. 

Bryce is asked to make chicken salad out of chicken ish almost every time he drops back. And with virtually no run game to lean on, it's up to him to make the offense work.

He usually makes them. That's the difference.

When you make a trade like this you think you're getting a QB that can elevate an offense. What it looks like we actually got is a QB that needs the offense to elevate him. 

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

He usually makes them. That's the difference.

When you make a trade like this you think you're getting a QB that can elevate an offense. What it looks like we actually got is a QB that needs the offense to elevate him. 

I disagree. We have a rookie that's asked to carry an offense with his arm and he doesn't have the weapons or the protection to realistically be able to do that. Then he starts pressing and making mistakes trying to make plays since no one else can, but that's ok for now. 

Bryce just needs to take the approach he did yesterday - the Peyton Manning approach. Just go out there and play. Learn from your mistakes but let it rip and figure out what you can and cannot do in the NFL. The playcalling, protection and weapons will fix themselves - eventually - we hope. Control what he can control which is getting better as a QB. The pressure of trying to make a bad team win games isn't fair for a rookie. 

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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1 minute ago, Navy_football said:

He would look a lot better. You know that. Would he look as good as Cam? Maybe not. Probably not. But there's no doubt he would look a lot more "NFL ready" than he does now.

I really don't. That's the honest truth.

We had two good RBs in 2011 but we went out and signed a 1200+ yard RB this year. He looks like a bust of a signing but is it because of him or us or a combo of the two?

We went out and signed Shockey and traded for Olsen in 2011. Olsen became great but he was a disappointment of a 1st round pick when we traded for him. We went out and signed a high level FA TE this year. I didn't like the signing but it is what it is. We thought he was going to really help. He was basically an Olsen level acquisition if you look at their comparative prior performances. Our #2 and #3 WRs were Brandon Lafell and Legedu Naanee. Look at what those guys accomplished sans Cam Newton. 

We had a pretty good OL in 2011. Gross, Wharton, and Kalil made up the best left side we've ever had. On the right we had a JAG in Hangartner and a disaster in Bell. This year we have a top 10 pick LT who was very promising as a rookie, a good center, trash OGs, and the best overall OT we've had since Gross at RT. I'd take the 2011 OL but it's not like they were this years Niners.

I just think it's a lot of cope and revisionism to paint the 2011 offense as leaps and bounds better based on what we understood going into those seasons. All I'm gonna say is that there's a big reason why QB is considered the most important position in all of sports. The right guy makes everything look better.

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I really don't. That's the honest truth.

We had two good RBs in 2011 but we went out and signed a 1200+ yard RB this year. He looks like a bust of a signing but is it because of him or us or a combo of the two?

We went out and signed Shockey and traded for Olsen in 2011. Olsen became great but he was a disappointment of a 1st round pick when we traded for him. We went out and signed a high level FA TE this year. I didn't like the signing but it is what it is. We thought he was going to really help. He was basically an Olsen level acquisition if you look at their comparative prior performances. Our #2 and #3 WRs were Brandon Lafell and Legedu Naanee. Look at what those guys accomplished sans Cam Newton. 

We had a pretty good OL in 2011. Gross, Wharton, and Kalil made up the best left side we've ever had. On the right we had a JAG in Hangartner and a disaster in Bell. This year we have a top 10 pick LT who was very promising as a rookie, a good center, trash OGs, and the best overall OT we've had since Gross at RT. I'd take the 2011 OL but it's not like they were this years Niners.

I just think it's a lot of cope and revisionism to paint the 2011 offense as leaps and bounds better based on what we understood going into those seasons. All I'm gonna say is that there's a big reason why QB is considered the most important position in all of sports. The right guy makes everything look better.

Come on LG... are you being real or trying to win an argument? 

That OL was 10 times better. Chud was a much better playcaller. Smitty alone, even at 30+ was way better than any WR on this team now. A true #1 opens things up for everyone else. And Olsen and Shockey vs Hurst and Thomas? And double trouble vs Sanders and Chuba? 

Bryce is fine as a rookie. Maybe he isn't Stroud or Richardson. Maybe he isn't the savior we want him to be yet. But he's playing fine for the situation he's in now.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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5 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Come on LG... are you being real or trying to win an argument? 

That OL was 10 times better. Chud was a much better playcaller. Smitty alone, even at 30+ was way better than any WR on this team now. A true #1 opens things up for everyone else. And Olsen and Shockey vs Hurst and Thomas? And double trouble vs Sanders and Chuba? 

Bryce is fine as a rookie. Maybe he isn't Stroud or Richardson. Maybe he isn't the savior we want him to be yet. But he's playing fine for the situation he's in now.

I'm being completely honest. We can't look at the offense it became in 2011 and became in 2023. Make an honest appraisal of the talent going into those seasons. There isn't this massive difference you're trying to make. Smitty barely had over 550 yards in 2010. Under 1000 in 2009. A lot of us thought he was basically washed up. The 2011 offense VASTLY exceeded all expectations. This year's has vastly underperformed. I don't think the QB position is the sole reason behind that, but I think it's a big part of the story. I keep going back to that Seattle game when there was a change at QB.

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GhostWhispah Rising Star

GhostWhispah

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On 10/8/2023 at 7:38 PM, LinvilleGorge said:

Similar arm strength but the big difference is that Purdy has absolutely elite anticipation and ball placement where so far Bryce has looked pretty average in those categories too. I didn't expect that. I really expected Bryce to be the type of QB who could throw guys open with anticipation and ball placement while hitting them in stride to allow for maximum YAC. That just hasn't been the case as of yet.

If we had Purdy while the 49ers had Bryce, you would flip flop your opinion too. Having that much playmakers running Kyle super complex offense would be a dream for Bryce super processing ability to help them win it all. And Purdy would play like the mister irreverent that he is as everyone here would trash him. 

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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2 minutes ago, GhostWhispah said:

If we had Purdy while the 49ers had Bryce, you would flip flop your opinion too. Having that much playmakers running Kyle super complex offense would be a dream for Bryce super processing ability to help them win it all. And Purdy would play like the mister irreverent that he is as everyone here would trash him. 

That's the problem. Bryce is playing more like Mr. Irrelevant than #1 overall.

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    • TD alt
      Drafting X is like the poster board for mistakes. Hopefully, lesson learned.

      By TD alt · Posted

      Yeah, I could jump right into the unbelievable Bryce debate now that some people are trying to flip the script because Bryce Young has, at most, a handful of decent games as a pro, but that's going to work itself out. Suffice it to say that I've seen better QBs (with an s) in a Panthers uniform, and I've certainly seen better QBs be drafted while we're playing around with Bryce, one of them who beat the crap out of us already this season... Let's forget about Bryce (and his markedly underwhelming play since he's been here); I think that most sane fans will agree that drafting him was an error, but it happens. Sure, it doesn't happen to the tune of King's ransom---including your main receiver---but it happens. You bet, you lose. Speaking of receivers...and betting and losing... Oh, man, we drafted Xavier Legette. Yes, just like with Bryce, I've entered "the dark side." Some Huddlers were telling us from the beginning, and they were right. But, I'm not apologizing for waiting to see what a guy's got before making my decision on him. X was a one-year wonder at South Carolina who parlayed some really nice production that season, a great personality and thick country accent, into becoming a first round pick (but only in Carolina). For Dan Morgan and company, He was a big swing that has turned into a big whiff (and I can still feel the ill breeze from that one). Sh¡t happens, right? Well, not so fast. Ladd McConkey was the decidedly more polished receiver who was literally ready to hit the ground running as soon as stepping onto the field as a pro. Ladd was never the biggest guy (though not the smallest), but he was the guy that could run routes, always seemed to get open---no question---and had the same speed as X, but with legit quickness and nuanced shake and bake. But Dan chose the project. He chose the guy where the game speed looks more like a tractor trailer than a 5.0 mustang. Look, I've supported X (just like Bryce) many many a day, but no more. Now I'm not saying that I won't root for the guy. Just like with Bryce, he seems like a great kid. But as far as giving excuses for the kid, and, perhaps more importantly, waiting for some miraculous breakout, I'm done with that. I've seen enough. You don't draft a project for a project. And yes, Bryce had proven to be a project after his first season. In my mind, drafting a supposedly number one receiver that needs lots of development for a starting quarterback that needs immediate help to try and further his development is not going to lead to good things. Pick the surest guy. Or at least pick the one who appears to be the surest guy, because picking can be tricky... especially when you're too busy tricking yourself. 
    • TD alt
      The Bryce Young "Game Winning Drive" narrative needs to end

      By TD alt · Posted

      Winning ain't gonna make my eyes lie to me. Context matters, and it will always matter in the game of football.
    • Loyalty4Life
      The Bryce Young "Game Winning Drive" narrative needs to end

      By Loyalty4Life · Posted

      That TD pass to Legette against Miami. Elite. The play where Bryce rolls right to buy time until Tet can reverse field.  Bryce pumps as multiple defenders close in.  He barely gets it away before he takes a big time hit.  Beautiful off platform throw and great catch by Tet.   The second TD to Tet against Dallas where Bryce dips and turns his shoulder in to evade the pass rusher.  Resets and finds Tet in the end zone. Dude embodies the Keep Pounding mantra.  
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