Barnwell: Panthers have the slowest WR routes in the NFL

[Dorian Gray]

Don't think this is shocking to anyone.

Quote

In total, 110 wide receivers have run 50 routes or more this season. In terms of average max speed per route per NFL Next Gen Stats, Carolina's leading wideouts rank 44th (Thielen), 78th (Chark), 85th (Terrace Marshall) and 88th (Mingo). Speed isn't everything, but the Panthers don't have the pass protection or the running game to survive when big plays haven't been coming.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/38607758/ranking-nfl-worst-teams-2023-season-giants-patriots-panthers-bears-broncos-vikings

[LinvilleGorge]

So why is this? I mean, we all knew Thielen had lost a step so that's not surprising. But DJ Chark ran a 4.34. TMJ ran a 4.38. Mingo ran a 4.46. 

These guys are fast. How are we making them look slow? This is a coaching/system issue more than it is a physical lack of speed issue.

[scpanther22]

Mingo never played as fast as his 40 suggest that was evident even in his college film 

[Loyalty4Life]

I think the type of routes run have a lot to do with it.  Since we hardly ever go deep we don't have many routes that enable a WR to run full speed so it throws off the whole average.  

I'd like to see the details of that stat and how it's calculated.

But it still can tell you that either the concepts, types of routes or playcalling are not allowing our WR to play as fast as possible or that on average we have too many receivers that are below average in speed.

[Jay Roosevelt]

How is Thielen the fastest of the bunch?

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, scpanther22 said:

Mingo never played as fast as his 40 suggest that was evident even in his college film 

40 time isn't everything for sure and good route runners will be faster on the field than bad route runners, but when everyone has good 40 tikes and everyone is playing slow there's a bigger problem than the physical speed of the players.

[LinvilleGorge]

I do want to know about this methodology though. Is a screen a "route" because if so, then yeah our average route speed is gonna be sloooooow.

[Loyalty4Life]

4 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

How is Thielen the fastest of the bunch?

Because it's how fast you run the route, which probably includes getting off jams, cutting, changing directions, etc.

Makes since why Thielen would be our fastest.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Because it's how fast you run the route, which probably includes getting off jams, cutting, changing directions, etc.

Makes since why Thielen would be our fastest.

Actually it's just the max speed on the route. So you could suck getting off the line, making your breaks, etc. as long as you were running fast somewhere along the way.

[Loyalty4Life]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Actually it's just the max speed on the route. So you could suck getting off the line, making your breaks, etc. as long as you were running fast somewhere along the way.

Yet, I would think that all of those things contribute to a WR being able to get up to his max speed on a given route.  Short area quickness or how quickly a guy accelerate could also play key roles which is why I'd love to see the methodology in play.

[CRA]

42 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

So why is this? I mean, we all knew Thielen had lost a step so that's not surprising. But DJ Chark ran a 4.34. TMJ ran a 4.38. Mingo ran a 4.46. 

These guys are fast. How are we making them look slow? This is a coaching/system issue more than it is a physical lack of speed issue.

40 speed largely tells you how fast you run a 40.   Which isn’t football.   There are routes where a Hunter Renfrow will look and be faster than DJ Chark.  Chark would smoke him in a timed 40 yard dash though. 

route running matters. We don’t have the OL or playcalling to capitalize and use Chark’s vertical speed. 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

40 speed largely tells you how fast you run a 40.   Which isn’t football.   There are routes where a Hunter Renfrow will look and be faster than DJ Chark.  Chark would smoke him in a timed 40 yard dash though. 

route running matters. We don’t have the OL or playcalling to capitalize and use Chark’s vertical speed. 

Rout running absolutely matters but fast is fast. If you're fast you're just gonna run a sloppy route but you're gonna do it moving fast. It won't be crisp, it might not be right, you might be rounding off your cuts, etc. But you're going to physically be moving fast even if you're not getting A to B on the field efficiently.

[Loyalty4Life]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Rout running absolutely matters but fast is fast. If you're fast you're just gonna run a sloppy route but you're gonna do it moving fast. It won't be crisp, it might not be right, you might be rounding off your cuts, etc. But you're going to physically be moving fast even if you're not getting A to B on the field efficiently.

If that were true then the list would be in order of 40 times and it's not so there must be other factors contributing to it. 

Otherwise, explain to me how Thielen is so far ahead of Chark?

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Loyalty4Life said:

If that were true then the list would be in order of 40 times and it's not so there must be other factors contributing to it. 

Otherwise, explain to me how Thielen is so far ahead of Chark?

Types of routes matter a lot. You're not gonna run a drag as fast as a g you're not going to run a slant as fast as a post. When everyone is fast and they're all playing slow it's probably not because of each individual player. That's all I'm saying.