"Collective decisions"

[t96]

This seems to be a common theme throughout Tepper's tenure so far, whenever anyone from the team talks about all the big moves they talk about how they were collective decisions and how the group were all in agreement (whether Rhule, Fitts, Hurney, Tepp, Reich, etc.). Tepper seems to like having the team run by committee approach where he's ultimately the final say/veto and is able to control the narrative in these meetings. Aside from that being an issue because Tepper is incompetent about football ops, this entire concept of all big decisions about the team being made collectively is a serious issue. When a decision is made by 3-4+ people you have 3-4+ people accountable for the results which ultimately means no one is truly accountable (i.e. Rhule can say he wanted to do something else but Fitts/Tepp wanted differently, and each of them can do that about the others).

I think this is one of the biggest issues with how this team has been run the last 6 years. Of course you want the HC, GM, staff, scouts, etc. on the same page about moves but they will not always be completely in sync and someone has to have the final say and be the final decision maker and take accountability. Tepper has had this role in reality but he takes no accountability and isn't the right person for this role as he can't replace himself as owner. Of course it can be a bit difficult managing HC & GM as GM can say he got the players/talent but HC didn't develop them or use them properly and HC can say the GM got him shitty players, but there are ways to weed this out on each side. Another easy way to solve that issue is by letting the GM hire the HC, not having the owner hire the HC while "working with the GM to choose" as Tepper has done a few times now. Then GM is fully accountable as he hired the HC and if the coach can't develop the players it ultimately falls on the GM for hiring the shitty coach. 

Bit of a rant here, but as many here have discussed, just expanding a bit on thoughts of how this team can eventually have success in the event Tepper remains owner (which is the reality that he will, however unfortunate). Basically, Tepper needs to blow things up and lean heavily on experienced NFL advisors in choosing a GM, then let that GM run the team and hire the HC. 

[Pejorative Miscreant]

It is a known fact that Tepper is an engaged owner which I think is good but I think there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggests Tepper meddles and I am inclined to believe this happens.  This is a bad thing. The one positive takeaway about Tepper (I know its Huddle blasphemy to mention positive and Tepper in the same sentence but hear me out) is that he wants to win and demonstrated that by opening his checkbooks and taking big swings.

The problem is he also seems to be the guy in charge no matter what and as a result is constantly shooting himself and the team in the nuts and all the checks he's written and all the big swings have been in vain.  For this team to become successful in his lifetime he either needs to learn everything there is to know about football super fast, or take himself out of the equation and defer these decisions while still holding his personnel accountable.  I believe the latter is the much easier and quicker road.

All that being said, I still think BY can be successful but the coaches gotta fix a lot of stuff.  Tepper is pouring Ketchup on his steak while the plays are being called he isn't running the football or routes.  This might be a shiittty team because of Tepper but they should be able to execute at a marginally higher level and they are not.

[Mr. Scot]

Reports were that "collective decisions" under Matt Rhule were basically Rhule badgering anyone who disagreed with him until they finally gave in.

On the whole though, I'm not necessarily against collaborative decision making...

...provided David Tepper stays out of it.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[ickmule]

This franchise is a train wreck 

[Loyalty4Life]

I am not Tepper's wife but I do really like the guy.

He wants to win.  Badly.  He's willing to spend his own money and a lot of it.  Once there's a plan he allows his people to be very aggressive. 

Yes, he's very involved and has been the decision maker on many things.  He's decided the structure of the team, who answers to whom, how decisions will be made. 

Like the original poster said, Tepper is a consensus type leader.  He wants all the experts in the room to show their view because they are the experts and then whomever is making the decision has all the information and facts to make the best decision.

Sometimes, yes, Tepper calls the shot.  It's his team.  He was pretty much the reason we got Rhule but while this turned out to be one of the worst decisions in Panthers history at the time it wasn't seen as some crazy thing.  He actually had to overpay Rhule to keep him from going to the Giants.  So, it wasn't like this was some hair brained outlandish decision make by an owner who wanted to be owner, coach and GM.  He made the decision that the football people in New York were also going to make. 

But all that being said, it was a hoooooooooorrrible decision and is 100% on Tepper and only Tepper.

All the QBs fails are on the coaches that picked them and Tepper, while probably giving his opinion, picked none of them, including Bryce Young.

Tepper picked (kept) Hurney and Rivera.  He picked Rhule.  He picked Fitt.  He picked Reich.  He set the power structure.  He opens his checkbook.  Wide. 

All this other crap and blame are just fans looking for someone to blame.

 

 

 

 

[pantherclaw]

I really don't agree with the idea that Tepper is meddling and controlling the team as many here suggests. 

I know there isn't many owners like him. 

He likes to be in communication with the men he trusts to run the team.  Nothing wrong with that. 

Frank wouldn't coach if he couldn't do what he wants to do. No head coach would. Well, unless you coach for Dallas.

I understand that the team has failed to get better since Tepper has owned the team. There has been tremendous turnover in players, and coaches.  

Until our oline can consistently protect,  we will never see the true potential of any offensive system we run, doesn't matter whom is calling the plays. 

A lot of effort has gone into assembling this staff and roster. I am wiling to wait to see what it looks like with execution across the board, and keeping the self inflicted mistakes (penalties) to a minimum.  

Tepper wants not just a winner, but a consistent winer. Which this franchise has never had.  No matter how you personally feel, that doesn't come easy.

Let this young team come together. 

 

 

 

 

[mrcompletely11]

8 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

I really don't agree with the idea that Tepper is meddling and controlling the team as many here suggests. 

I know there isn't many owners like him. 

He likes to be in communication with the men he trusts to run the team.  Nothing wrong with that. 

Frank wouldn't coach if he couldn't do what he wants to do. No head coach would. Well, unless you coach for Dallas.

I understand that the team has failed to get better since Tepper has owned the team. There has been tremendous turnover in players, and coaches.  

Until our oline can consistently protect,  we will never see the true potential of any offensive system we run, doesn't matter whom is calling the plays. 

A lot of effort has gone into assembling this staff and roster. I am wiling to wait to see what it looks like with execution across the board, and keeping the self inflicted mistakes (penalties) to a minimum.  

Tepper wants not just a winner, but a consistent winer. Which this franchise has never had.  No matter how you personally feel, that doesn't come easy.

Let this young team come together. 

 

 

 

 

Basically every national pundit that talked about us after the Reich presser on monday said it was pretty unprecedented that a coach meets with the owner after every game.   He needs to back the fug off and let the staff work.  

[The Natural]

If Tepper meddled as much as you guys think he does Justin Fields would be our QB right now. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by The Natural

[pantherclaw]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Basically every national pundit that talked about us after the Reich presser on monday said it was pretty unprecedented that a coach meets with the owner after every game.   He needs to back the fug off and let the staff work.  

Having a meeting is pretty vague. So many assumptions are being made on what is happening in these meetings. 

I have zero issues with Tepper being in the loop.  

I'm thrilled we have an owner who hates losing as much as he does. Seems like he hates it more than many fans say they do.  So I see a damned if he does anything, and damned if he doesn't mentality with most of our fan base. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by pantherclaw

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, pantherclaw said:

Having a meeting is pretty vague. So many assumptions are being made on what is happening in these meetings. 

I have zero issues with Tepper being in the loop.  

I'm thrilled we have an owner who hates losing as much as he does. Seems like he hats it worse than man fans say they do.  So I see a damned if he does anything, and damned if he doesn't.   

all that is cool and all but just remember that is not the normal OP for a nfl owner, but if you are fine with it then you are fine with it.

[pantherclaw]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

all that is cool and all but just remember that is not the normal OP for a nfl owner, but if you are fine with it then you are fine with it.

Who cares what is normal, most owners come across like they don't even care if their franchise ever wins games, as long as their making money.  fug that narrative.  

Edited October 14, 2023 by pantherclaw

[mrcompletely11]

6 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Who cares what is normal, most owners come across like they don't even care if their franchise ever wins games, as long as their making money.  fug that narrative.  

bro we are 0-5, I think I care that Tepper is going rogue, whatever "meetings" he is having and whatever tepper is "suggesting" is clearly not working.  Maybe just maybe he should take the rooney approach and shut the fug up

[pantherclaw]

6 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

bro we are 0-5, I think I care that Tepper is going rogue, whatever "meetings" he is having and whatever tepper is "suggesting" is clearly not working.  Maybe just maybe he should take the rooney approach and shut the fug up

Once again, you're making assumptions on what Teppers impact upon the team really is.  

Tepper has nothing to do with the fact we're 0-5. 

So no matter his "involvement level," it's not going to stop our players from making mistakes.  It's not going to magically heal our injured players. 

Players must hold themselves accountable.  This is also a side affect of such a young team. 

I guess you thought there wouldn't be any growing pains. So obviously we're losing because our owner and HC are having weekly meetings.  Blaming the owner, the HC, at this point is throwing poo at a wall and seeing what sticks. 

 

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, pantherclaw said:

Once again, you're making assumptions on what Teppers impact upon the team really is.  

Tepper has nothing to do with the fact we're 0-5. 

So no matter his "involvement level," it's not going to stop our players from making mistakes.  It's not going to magically heal our injured players. 

Players must hold themselves accountable.  This is also a side affect of such a young team. 

I guess you thought there wouldn't be any growing pains. So obviously we're losing because our owner and HC are having weekly meetings.  Blaming the owner, the HC, at this point is throwing poo at a wall and seeing what sticks. 

 

If you don't think his meddling is affecting the trajectory of this franchise then I'm not sure what to tell you.   The proof is in the pudding as they say.  Weve literally been the worst franchise since he took over.  And 0-5 is way past the point of simple growing pains