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With Panthers cleaning house how safe is Bryce

Frank9999

By Frank9999,
in Carolina Panthers

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I don't  think the message is to not try to win.  I think it's acknowledging that it is an uphill battle from the start. It's not saying playoffs or bust. It's says let's see what they are made of and who is part of the plans going forward. If you base it on last seasons results that means only a handful of players. Of course there will need to be a lot more of those types to include.  But it's hard to say if there's any being overlooked because everything was complete ass with this team. There's not enough talent here or that can be added in one offseason to expect a winning season. This team is just not good enough to seriously compete. But the team will never admit that in public. It's just a given that will go unstated or unacknowledged by the team. As fans you should know this also. If not you will be severely disappointed. 

As we sit here today on 1/9 my over under for 2024 is 5 wins.  Sure that could change but a lot and I mean a lot of poo has to happen and go right for us

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

That's the million dollar question.  That decision will probably be decided between Tepper and the new coach.  I'm sure it will be determined before the 1st game is played. When is enough enough? Only Tepper can decide that as he will be watching along with the rest of us.  

I think Tepper is almost an unpredictable morphing figuring at this point.  Overcorrecting.  I do think Tepper "tries" to do good.  I think his hires have been very different because he doesn't actually have a vision of how to win or what he wants his team to be.....and I think his approach with each coach was very different.  But he almost had it backwards.  Rhule needed a lot of help to start things off and had none.  Not saying it needed to be Tepper.  But Rhule needed NFL help.  It came late essentially to do deal with the end of days of the Rhule era.  But the Rhule era was too light on NFL knowledge.  Newb GM.  Newb HC.  Newb NFL DC. Newb NFL OC.  

Then Frank didn't need help and Tepper went overboard ramming it down Frank's throat.  Old HCs overseeing both sides of the ball.  Young OCs. Weekly meetings with the owner.  Rhule might of needed that.  It killed Frank from being able to be a Fox/Ron and have us be respectable.  If you got 30 identities you got none.  Rebuild.  Win now.  Old school.  New school.  Check in with Tepper.  What was the Frank era?  No one ever knew. 

 

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Martin Grand Master

Martin

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54 minutes ago, recceice said:

And they won’t be getting the job.. 

But please help me out .. Show me a “reputable” football analyst that’s saying BY is the biggest problem in Carolina.. 

I haven’t seen 1 yet..

I think you are confusing tv analysts with league opinions. They might be the same, they might be different, you have no idea.

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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I don't  think the message is to not try to win.  I think it's acknowledging that it is an uphill battle from the start. It's not saying playoffs or bust. It's says let's see what they are made of and who is part of the plans going forward. If you base it on last seasons results that means only a handful of players. Of course there will need to be a lot more of those types to include.  But it's hard to say if there's any being overlooked because everything was complete ass with this team. There's not enough talent here or that can be added in one offseason to expect a winning season. This can't is just not good enough to seriously compete. But the team will never admit that in public. It's just a given that will go unstated or unacknowledged by the team. As fans you should know this also. If not you will be severely disappointed. 

He was saying that they have to play Young, I said competition is best. Saying you must play Young when he can't win the job is saying play Young over trying to win. It's a 2 win team so ofcouse all of it is uphill from here. If you would have asked anyone if Reich would be fired midseason year 1 no one would have said yes. If you are saying play Young in all 24 regardless then you are asking, baring a miracle I guess, them to lose. That is tanking and a terrible way for a new crew to start. He will play and get a shot but if it's still 'all in on Bryce' and not 'give Bryce a chance' there is a solid chance it ends the same way. 

The Bucs went to the playoffs with Baker. It really doesn't take much more to win more, at least in the NFCS. People are already afraid of missing that #1 pick in 25 and if that was the top priority they should just keep Tabor as the HC for another year and hire a GM to hire the new HC in 25.

I am on a board for Panthers fans, disappointment all we get now. It's easier to just say the people hiring everyone are really bad at it so why expect anything to change now? 

Edited by Waldo
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Martin Grand Master

Martin

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48 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Fans have buyers remorse because he looked bad and this was one of the worst seasons by a team in the 21st century.  That I get.  Fact is, the next coach & GM has Bryce on the roster. He's here for 2024.  

Combined with this past season's film, the new staff will have an entire offseason, preseason, and probably 8-10 games before they know what they have with Bryce.  That's what we're working with here.  We'll find out a lot of things this next season and where the future lies. 

It's absolutely unrealistic to expect us to trade for Fields.  It's also unrealistic to expect a QB at 33 or even maybe 65.  Have we not learned about forcing QBs without building a team?  We're not immediately getting rid or somehow trading Bryce, and we're not drafting a QB high.  It's just not happening.

HOWEVER, don't forget the new GM will be coming from another team's scouting dept., with their own perspective on Bryce through another lens.   Therefore, it's also unrealistic to expect us to force a new regime to trot out Bryce without getting a sound QB room that suits their standards around him.  He regressed throughout the season sans 1 half game performance against GB.  

It should not deter them from bringing Dalton back or signing a new vet.  It should also not deter them from taking a mid-round chance on a Cameron Ward type as backup who could get thrust into games.  A scenario like that is what we're dealing with if any.

 

 

 

 

 

33 has to go towards an stud o-lineman or a we. I’d love Ward later in the draft.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

As we sit here today on 1/9 my over under for 2024 is 5 wins.  Sure that could change but a lot and I mean a lot of poo has to happen and go right for us

You are more confident than I on the win loss total.  I'm going to wait until training camp before I decide how many wins are possible. Although I was wrong about last seasons possible wins I'll try again this year. Eventually I'll get it right. 

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NAS Grand Master

NAS

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I've never seen one team get so much wrong in one offseason. I do not think anyone saw everything going so catastrophically wrong for this team the way it did. I know I didn't.  I knew we weren't winning much but I never saw it being as bad as it was. 

I did freak out after the first preseason game when I saw how terrible our offensive line looked and was laughed at here lol.  I hoped it was just an overreaction and that coaches would make the difference.  

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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6 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think Tepper is almost an unpredictable morphing figuring at this point.  Overcorrecting.  I do think Tepper "tries" to do good.  I think his hires have been very different because he doesn't actually have a vision of how to win or what he wants his team to be.....and I think his approach with each coach was very different.  But he almost had it backwards.  Rhule needed a lot of help to start things off and had none.  Not saying it needed to be Tepper.  But Rhule needed NFL help.  It came late essentially to do deal with the end of days of the Rhule era.  But the Rhule era was too light on NFL knowledge.  Newb GM.  Newb HC.  Newb NFL DC. Newb NFL OC.  

Then Frank didn't need help and Tepper went overboard ramming it down Frank's throat.  Old HCs overseeing both sides of the ball.  Young OCs. Weekly meetings with the owner.  Rhule might of needed that.  It killed Frank from being able to be a Fox/Ron and have us be respectable.  If you got 30 identities you got none.  Rebuild.  Win now.  Old school.  New school.  Check in with Tepper.  What was the Frank era?  No one ever knew. 

 

Frank never had a chance.  For one thing he was too cooperative in aspects where he should have stood firm. But the power dynamics was what did everyone in. It turns out that an "all-star" still needs a leader with a vision. Not complete collaboration that leaves everyone wondering what that hell is going on and who is actually in charge. 

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

Posted
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12 minutes ago, NAS said:

I did freak out after the first preseason game when I saw how terrible our offensive line looked and was laughed at here lol.  I hoped it was just an overreaction and that coaches would make the difference.  

I knew we were in for it when Youngs arm strength or lackthereof was on full display.  I knew it wasnt on par with the greats but it was pretty breathtaking how bad it was.  In hindsight we should have known we were in for a long year

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Waldo said:

He was saying that they have to play Young, I said competition is best. Saying you must play Young when he can't win the job is saying play Young over trying to win. It's a 2 win team so ofcouse all of it is uphill from here. If you would have asked anyone if Reich would be fired midseason year 1 no one would have said yes. If you are saying play Young in all 24 regardless then you are asking, baring a miracle I guess, them to lose. That is tanking and a terrible way for a new crew to start. He will play and get a shot but if it's still 'all in on Bryce' and not 'give Bryce a chance' there is a solid chance it ends the same way. 

The Bucs went to the playoffs with Baker. It really doesn't take much more to win more, at least in the NFCS. People are already afraid of missing that #1 pick in 25 and if that was the top priority they should just keep Tabor as the HC for another year and hire a GM to hire the new HC in 25.

I am on a board for Panthers fans, disappointment all we get now. It's easier to just say the people hiring everyone are really bad at it so why expect anything to change now? 

I do not think they have to play him if he's not earning it. They will give him the 1st shot at it solely on investment alone. In other words last season is not laid on his shoulders as the sole reason it failed. Which would be a fair statement. Whether fans like it or not Bryce Young is the starting qb for the Carolina Panthers in 2024, barring his untimely demise or a trade. Neither of which seem like a realistic possibility. 

Edited by Jon Snow
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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, PghPanther said:

The day Tepper is absolutely convinced he will no longer be able to make a playoff run with Young at the QB position......then Young will be gone in a heartbeat.

Until then his ego says he holds on to Young. 

Yeah, I think it’s sort of overlooked how quick and easy Tepper could be done with Bryce.  Tepper cuts his losses quicker than a lot of owners.  I mean he is putting himself in position to have to do it….but he still does it. 
 

End of the day QB play is just that.  What you gave up for a player doesn’t really matter.  And it’s why Mr Irrelevant might play in the Super Bowl this year and the last guy who cost as much as Bryce is somewhere on a bench with another team.  The gotta give him 2-3 years just because mantra just ain’t something I am buy in todays NFL.  

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NAS Grand Master

NAS

Posted
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5 minutes ago, CRA said:

End of the day QB play is just that.  What you gave up for a player doesn’t really matter.  And it’s why Mr Irrelevant might play in the Super Bowl this year and the last guy who cost as much as Bryce is somewhere on a bench with another team.  The gotta give him 2-3 years just because mantra just ain’t something I buy in todays NFL.  

The only trade that was close to being as bad as Panthers was 49ers trade for Lance, but Lynch and Shannahan kept their jobs by finding Mr. Irrelevant.  Also, they still built an amazingly strong roster on both sides of the ball so it can be done.

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      So he became GM and decided not to address the weakness in the QB room following one of the worst rookie QB performances in NFL history?  There were options last season other than signing Dalton to a 2 year deal. Brissett and Jones by a wide margin, both of whom outplayed Bryce, Wilson, Winston, hell even Rivers off the couch was more exciting at the QB position. The time to address the failure in the QB room was last year but instead people on the Huddle cheered when we brought Dalton back then cheered when we were able to get anything for him after they finally realized he was washed up like a few of had been saying all along and got poo'd for even mentioning.  This year, the options were more limited obviously, especially since we lost Icky. It changed the dynamic of our draft. I think we were stuck this year keeping Bryce, but i still think giving him a 5th year option for what has amounted to replacement worthy performance was the wrong move. Why guarantee 25m if you're planning to replace him? You think he's going to want to be a bridge QB? Hell no. He's going to want out and we'll end up cutting him if he has another lackluster season because no one is trading for him with that price tag.  Were there better options as far as production available. A couple. Were there guys available with more physical tools than Bryce, Pickett or Grier, you damn well better believe there were. I've been saying all along, you always keep looking for your 1b. Bryce has yet to prove he can be a starter. Keep looking for someone who may. Put competition in camp. Let the best QB lead the team. Stop settling for less than mediocre. 
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      Reasonable. I mean I didn’t see a clear path to relief this season myself. As I have typed already, I think the QB FA class is more interesting next season and that draft is supposed to be stacked as well. There just weren’t many options this year.  When you have Tepper to contend with you have to tread lightly around this unless you are 100% certain and willIng to stake your job on it.   There were a couple of outings that helped Bryce a lot in terms of  thinking maybe he can do this, and if you are a supporter you are giving them a lot of weight. You are likely to think just get him some more help and he can do that every week. Which I think Tepper falls into that category.  And the playoffs, division champs, regardless of the way I see that, the supporters will also give that a lot of weight.    And the big one, the atmosphere In BOA for that WC game, Tepper had to be soiling himself over that. If you pulled Bryce out right now you had better be right and your new guy had better make the playoffs and look good doing it or you will be gone and your chance to build your old team back into respectability will be gone too.  So here we have Pickett on a one year deal, and Grier and King. I understand it.  
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